Demo is out: http://www.gamersgate.com/demos/EU3_HeirToTheThrone_DEMO2.exe
Haven’t played EU3 since last year but started a new game (Portugal) as a warmup to the expansion (now I recall why I modded out pirates, yikes) but I guess that game is going by the wayside tonight as I try the demo :)
Most of my games tend to be trader/colonial power types (e.g. Milan, Holland, Novgorod) with a smattering of more warlike countries (once as Poland another as Teutonic Order.) It looks like HtTT has far more non-warring options which I’m really looking forward to :)
Yeah, quite. Particularly in the late game, when there ought to be other things for an already expansive empire to accomplish beyond military conquest.
Judging from the above linked AAR, an overextended empire will have a lot more issues if it’s not centralized enough or is full of non-core provinces. Mind you, the AAR writer is going on a conquest spree throughout Near East and I wonder if maybe some of the new casus belli options make it too easy for some powers.
I think I like how the dynastic situation is working out - important but not overwhelmingly so.
One of my concerns from the AAR is how easy it seems to destroy an enemy army. If you can rout it and get it down to zero morale, you can destroy it completely if you can catch it no matter the size. Though I understand the motivations here - to stop those annoying army hunts that could drag a war out and make battles more decisive in general - I wonder if maybe the result isn’t to make an AI already not brilliant at moving its armies even more of a paper tiger. Rout its largest army and then lay siege to all its cities.
Troy
Been playing the demo since early this morning. It’s scary how three hours can just evaporate. Certainly has whetted my appetite for the full release.
Combat is a lot different now. Got into a war against Brandenburg - I had warned them to keep them from attacking neighboring small German states, they responded with a diplomatic insult giving me a CB against them. (Having a CB does not draw in the HRE which allows for some more maneuvering in the German states compared to prior versions).
With roughly the same sized armies it was to and fro for while until I risked my king* as leader of the army. That was enough to to turn the tide, and in a decisive battle I rather startlingly eliminated their main army of 13k They had failed to reinforce sufficiently which spelled their doom. There are a host of new peace options, such as forcing them to cancel agreements with other nations or removing their sphere of influence. Pretty cool.
Prestige is important now. Patron of the arts and philosopher advisor’s are going to be crucial for small states as it appears war is still the fastest way to accumulate it. By the time I quit the demo this a.m. Bohemia had accrued 74 points. Along with extending your sphere of influence, with magistrates and sufficient prestige you can choose some nifty cultural decisions. These in turn allow for better advisors, which I thought had always been a weak part of the game without any mods.
At any rate I ramble, but so far this is looking like a solid expansion.
*You do NOT want your King dying before your heir is ready or god forbid without one. At one point Bohemia had half a dozen claims on their throne until a legitimate heir was born.
In a way I think that the decisive battles part is good and reasonable, the real problem is rather that sieges are too painless for the attacker. You should basically be forced as an attacker to dispatch a significant force (and suffer corresponding attrition) if you want to siege which would allow the defender to rebuild his army. Unfortunately, this might not work either since newly recruited regiments can be hunted down by small raiding groups, so I’m not sure what the best solution is for this kind of game.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been more talk here about Heir given the number of EU3 fans on this board. Especially from Tom.
So what’s the verdict now that it’s been over a week since it came out?
Came out on the 15th as far as I know. I only took a swing at the demo, liked what I saw a lot and plan on picking it up during the weekend and do some Christmas gaming with it…
I only got a hold of it today myself, looking to put some time in over the weekend with an eye on playing a spanish campaign or somesuch. My brief looksee so far seems to bolster the idea that it’s solved the remaining lax areas if the base game and done the best to ride the coattails of the best major mod for the game.
I played a bit as Austria. It’s been a while since I played a major power and the first thing that struck me was the income. In 1490 I was able to keep a standing army of 70k men and cavalry in equal proportions and still make a healthy profit, and this with minting set to 0. I fought wars on three fronts and still kicked ass. But that’s not really that important.
The thing that made me play as Austria in the first place was to try out the Holy Roman Empire mechanics. I like them, but they are extremely unbalanced. It was really easy to keep my reputation up through defensive wars and every edict I wanted to pass went through, even the ones with detrimental effects on the HRE member states. I was constantly petitioned to accept new provinces into the empire and the HRE borders kept creeping outwards, meaning more potential for defensive wars, etc.
The new Casus Belli events were really cool however. I like the new mechanics overall, I just suspect that it’s gonna take another six months of modding to iron them out.
I haven’t been able to spend nearly as much time with it as I’d like, so I can’t comment in any meaningful way on the changes to the core game. I’ve been away from EU3 for a long time and I’m having to relearn the whole thing, including the new stuff in Napoleon’s Ambition and In Nomine. But it feels great coming back to a game after it’s gotten so many additional post-release improvements.
-TomGeez, I can’t imagine playing the gaming without those improvements.
The merchant issues alone killed me.
I’ve been playing this with Brandenburg for a few hours, and it’s great so far. The new features don’t require lots of micromanagement, add flavour, and make the gameplay feel richer without feeling unnecessarily complicated.
My one big issue: I’ve gotten used to some features from the excellent Magna Mundi mod that I can’t use anymore until it’s updated, which might be a while. In particular, I like the Administrative Efficiency model (it makes for satisfying gameplay progression as you improve your AE, and makes large, overstretched empires behave realistically), the Modernization system (which is different than the Westernization system, and makes non-European countries more interesting to play), and the ability to seize provinces from an enemy nation–without negotiation–once you’ve held them long enough. I also like the rebalanced national ideas. Hopefully Paradox will incorporate those features, or something similar, in a patch.
Played this all weekend-I like that it takes the big changes that In Nomine delievered in terms of directing the AI (and to a lesser extent the player) to focus its goals one step further via the new Casus Belli mechanics-countries go to war for reasons, and the new Sphere of Influence system allows the larger AI nations to further prevent player meddling than before. Wars have goals and purposes now and happen without the AI murdering itself from stability hits.
Definitely adds some nice flavor to an already flavorful game. I am playing the Byzantium start and having a rip-roaring time with it-it’s definitely tuned specifically for the experienced Paradox player, and it’s been a real treat so far (in the late 1490s at this point).
Europa Universalis 3 just finally “clicked” for me this weekend. I lost about 12 hours to it after a couple of years of getting overwhelmed and moving on every other time I tried to play it.
That said, this new expansion sounds awesome. When you say it’s for the “experienced” paradox player – do you mean it’s something a newb like me should avoid?
Heir to the Throne is well worth getting even for new players. As far as I’m concerned, the new systems for casus belli, national culture and advisors, navies, the Holy See, and magistrates is indispensible. Those things might seem minor as bullet points, but they all make an enormous difference in how the game plays. You’re not playing EU3 at its best until you’re playing with the Heir to the Throne expansion.
-TomYou’ve had more time with it Tom? Maybe I’ll get it after Xmas.
My favorite new feature in HttT: the Papal States, if they conquer Italy, can declare themselves “The Kingdom of Heaven On Earth”.
At which point, among many other benefits, the Papacy is destroyed, because, hey, god-emperors need no further justification!
(BTW it’s almost impossible for the Papal States to conquer Italy. Usually they can swallow Naples and then get ganged up on by… everyone else.)
I meant the Byzantium start in Heir to the Throne-it’s not really featured as an “interesting country to play” but its darn obvious someone inside Paradox enjoyed tweaking the surrounding land just enough to make it a special treat for advanced players.
Heir to the Throne, if anything, makes many of the EU3 systems more straightforward and less fiddly for new players.
Byzantium is interesting for a couple of reasons w/re to gameplay, aside from the obvious historical appeal. You can’t really beat the Ottomans once they get too big, so you have to watch and basically guess when they’ve run out of manpower fighting someone else within about 50 years of start, or you’re dead meat. It’s tricky and you’ll probably have to restart a couple of times, but i’ve done it more than once in the EU games, and it can be done.
The second most interesting part is what to do about the stagnation of your new Byzantine Empire, as you’ll probably have to mint until you’ve got some crippling inflation. And, as a historic parallel, you’ll eventually get too far behind the Western powers to do much more than fight massive defensive wars after 1650 or so, with your Landtech 22 vs. Austria’s Landtech 39, which mirror’s the fate of the Ottoman empire well enough. I’ve never quite figured out how best to deal with inflation.