That’s what tore me up - a lot of the people in the tower seemed like genuinely nice people, who wanted to help the ghouls and were excited at the idea of having new people around. When you go back before they butcher everyone, several of them comment on how nice it is to have new people to talk to, interesting new stories to hear, etc. Roy is just a goddamned psycho. I wonder if you can forestall the zombie apocalypse by just offing Roy.
I agree with this, but I think you should be allowed to exact retribution on the ghouls (without taking a karma hit) for their mass-murder of humans who didn’t object to them living in the Tower. Until then, it’s a well-constructed story with some good twists and turns.
That’s not a bad idea. If I had a save in that area it’d be worth trying. Sort of similar to saving the sheriff in Megaton by jumping in front of Burke before he can shoot.
So I ended up letting loose the zombie apocalypse after capping Tenpenny. While I disagree with the outcome, I have to admit watching the zombies run amok in the hotel was pretty fucking awesome in a sick, perverted way.
I think the word for this kind of thing is “deprotagonising”.
There’s nothing wrong with a complex situation, as long as you allow the player to attempt a suitably complex solution.
I think I wrecked mine.
The first time I arrived at the tower, I was let inside. I proceeded to case the joint and check out the loot options. Found a basement door which lead to a computer that was begging to be hacked. Hacked into it, selected all the options and noticed when I did the ghouls overran the place killing everyone. I didn’t even have the quest for it yet I was just starting to feel out the place. :(
Now I get no reward or anything except a sniper rifle.
On the other hand, I think it’s kind of cool that the game has some complex ethical dilemmas (like this one) for which there is no good solution. Doing anything to upset the status quo at Tenpenny Tower just makes the situation worse, and the only thing you can do that doesn’t involve someone getting screwed is to simply leave. Which is what I did, actually.
I killed the ghouls on the initial mission from the security guard. There was some negligible karma loss, but overall it was a waste of time at the point in the game I did it. Since I’d already defused Megaton without ever visiting Tenpenny, there was simply no additional angle, and none of this “Burke” character I’ve heard of.
Yeah, I know,that’s what sucks about this particular quest/quest line.
You try to do the “right” thing and get screwed over in the end.
But, a lot of the things in this game are equally broken.
Certain areas, if you kill everyone, and there is a bunch of stuff lying around, it is still considered stealing, even if the owners are now dead.
If you wait a day or 2 and come back it’s still the same.
Yeah, I noticed that with the Family. First I get a hit on karma for killing them despite their goodness being ambiguous at best (and at no point revealed to me before they started shooting for trespassing), and then I can’t take their shit without a karma hit. I’ll remember that for an evil playthrough.
That… is stupid.
No, not you. The game is stupid if the best thing you can do is not play the game.
If you stop approaching it in “how can I best game it” terms, it’s not a bad quest line at all. The fact that things don’t turn out “good” in the end is an interesting statement, and one that we rarely see since most games default to a binary approach to quest resolution. The Tenpenny quest line is very complex, and essentially makes the point that sometimes things don’t work out even if you are trying to do the right thing. And not doing anything is a legitimate choice, just like it is in some of the other quests (Andale, the Family, etc.).
I don’t mean “how can I best game it”, I mean “how can I arrive at a resolution which is personally satisfying”. This may or may not be the outcome that results in the most XP, most loot, or whatever other in-game rewards exist.
I don’t have anything against making hard decisions. Heck, that’s one reason why I liked Mass Effect so much: it puts you in situations where you have to make a decision that sucks either way. The difference is that ME does a much better job of framing that decision in a narrative that provides emotional closure for the player. You are never punished for the choice you make, unlike what happens here.
Huh? Who said it’s the best thing to do? It depends on what you want out of the situation. There are rewards for helping the ghouls, and also for helping Tenpenny. It’s just that warm fuzzies from making the world a better place are not among them.
In what way are you punished? Certainly not in game terms. Besides, there is a ton of downer stuff to be explored in the world of Fallout 3. And that is not the only quest that can’t be resolved in an “emotionally satisfying way.”
In terms of experiencing a narrative that leaves the player thinking “why the hell did I bother”.
Besides, there is a ton of downer stuff to be explored in the world of Fallout 3. And that is not the only quest that can’t be resolved in an “emotionally satisfying way.”
Which just means that the game is stupid in many places. :)
I will grant you, if you are looking for a game in which you get to fix everyone’s problems, and then they all live happily ever after, then Fallout 3 is not the game for you. ;)
Y’all are whiners. The situation provides consequences for every action. Sorry if they don’t fit into your hero fantasy, but it’s a game about a ruined society. It’s not broken, it’s just a situation of scoundrels on each side, I think that’s great.
“The best solution is to not play the game”. It’s just one quest, with like 3 missions in it. There’s plenty else to do.
I can see an argument for the Karma system being semi-inconsistent in this situation. But, murdering murders does not a hero make. You could argue that Burke/Tenpenny are potential mass murderers and might find a way to blow-up megaton without you, thus killing them potentially saves a couple dozen lives.
Killing the Ghouls is just revenge.
EDIT:
This seems pretty small minded. I mean did you see the Road Warrior man?
I agree, but I still wish that you were given the option to kill Roy and his band of merry psychopaths without a karma hit after they genocide the humans at Tenpenny who welcomed them.
A Fistful of Dollars is another situation of scoundrels on each side, but it still manages to arrive at a much better resolution than Bethesda allows you.
Like I said, there’s nothing wrong with complex problems, as long as you allow the player to allow complex solutions.