I had to register an account just to discuss this game. In fairly normal fashion Qt3 is the voice of the opposition. In the way that many other games that get savaged are sometimes praised here.
Sometimes I think this is because Tom is like a lightsaber. “A more elegant reviewer from a more civilized age”.
So his whole shtick is so alien to modern game journalism in so many ways he just sees with a different set of eyes, and those eyes are often my eyes. (but not always). Case in point, Horizon Zero Dawn raised the bar in many ways so he was clearly on a weekend long meth bender before penning that particular piece.
But he hits as often as he misses. I feel like with Volition’s pedigree which most of these new school kids barely understand past Saint’s Row. (Hi, Freespace 2 anyone? Gold standard of space opera and in some ways still is) Anyways, I feel like maybe this is just that same thing, something that is lost on the generation that can’t keep their head out of a smartphone for more than 30 seconds and has the attention span of a mayfly.
That maybe this is a hidden gem in spite of most other sites proclaiming it somewhere between a solid miss and utter shite.
I am going to take a “wait and see” approach but if anyone grok’s what I’m saying I’d love to hear some other feedback from the ‘oldheads’ about this.
disclaimer: I am from the way back machine as well under a few different aliases but will remain cloaked for the time being. My name is in the Ultima Online Prima Strategy Guide, true story. So yeah… that kinda old, just thought I’d throw my Old Balls™ credentials out there. I’m of the Desslock, OMM, D.Smart, Cleve Blakemore (lol), etc. era.
Can you explain this paragraph a bit? Are you saying Agents of Mayhem is too subtle or mature for millennials, or that Volition in general designs games with old-school sensitivity that’s lost on the youth?
Castlevania III: Dracula’s Curse had that, and it was reimplemented in the later Castlevania games Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin. You might have been thinking of C3.
That it would be a pretty crappy action RPG that lets you wipe all the enemies off the map. :)
I can see why this would bother people expecting something along the lines of Homefront’s “take back the city”. But the model for Agents of Mayhem really is an action RPG. Taking back Seoul would like taking back the Plains of Despair in Diablo. How are you going to level up your characters without the goat people out there?
Not true! You’ll be glad to know there are three (3!) indicators that you’re taking damage. If your shields are getting hit, you have a direction-specific 3D representation of the incoming damage hitting your shield (pardon my crude photoshoppery):
When you lose your shields, there’s a splash red-diamond effect that crosses the screen, and then the border of the screen gets a red lining:
When your health is taking damage the shield indicators become red arrows:
As I said in the review, everything in Agents of Mayhem has a visual component. You just have to learn to read it.
You are of course correct. It just feels a lot more subtle. Maybe it’s that there isn’t a clear audio cue for lowering health? I just know I’ve been surprised many more times than I would have expected by being almost dead all of a sudden.
Tom, you keep calling this an ARPG and comparing it to Diablo, which I think I understand as far as the overall structure and how you can play with builds. But I also think that part of the modern definition of ARPG is that it is essentially infinite, as you can keep ratcheting up the difficulty however high you can handle, while grinding for better and better gear. Is there any notion of this, other than the endlessly repeating takeovers, in Agents of Mayhem? Or does it have a clear ceiling?
That makes sense, and I’ve always though Volition’s audio design could use more oomph. In the last Saints Row and in Agents of Mayhem, I’d love to have the car engines and sometimes even gunshots as a more prominent part of the sound. Some sort of thump feedback effect when you’re taking health damage might be nice? But because of the nature of the game, with the characters being so dramatically different, taking health damage is sometimes not worth my attention. Other times, it means my agent is moments away from death.
But the idea that you have to look at the health bar is patently untrue once you know what you’re looking at. That red flash across the screen when you’re shields are depleted is hard to miss. This makes me wonder how many of the critical reviews of the game just didn’t bother figuring out the combat system. :( It’s a lovely and intricate thing, but it takes learning.
The character builds don’t feel like anything I’ve seen in an open-world game. Right off the bat, they’re clearly different classes. And once you start slotting “skills”, and seeing where Legion tech “gems” go, and spending skill points, it feels very Diablo, very action RPG.
As for the ceiling, I’m not sure. I don’t know what happens when an agent hits level 40, which is where he’s got enough points for all his abilities.
Perhaps a bit of both. Again, this game is sight unseen for me so I’m purely speculating here. I just know that sometimes nuance seems to be lost in ways that it may not have in the past.
This is a more meta issue than just AoM. Today’s tastes and audience are just quite different than those of years prior. I’ve lurked here long enough to see what I mentioned in the first thing I posted. Sometimes (not always!) Tom has a more critical eye for things which you may not see elsewhere. I was simply guessing out loud this may be the same case here.
I don’t mean any disrespect to Tom, but this is very true for me. Not say his opinion is wrong, but I find that it lines up with my own almost exactly 50% of the time. It makes his reviews useless as far as deciding whether or not to buy a game. Still enjoyable and often enlightening to read, though.
I think I’ll wait to see more of the general reception for this one.
This makes me wonder how many of the critical reviews of the game just didn’t bother figuring out the combat system. :( It’s a lovely and intricate thing, but it takes learning.
Yeah, I can’t argue with that. Now that I’m playing more of it (I haven’t gotten more Agents after Rama yet but I did the side missions for the first four (the Franchise Force missions are great!)), I’m definitely noticing the information it’s giving me a lot more. I think a lot of reviewers went in hoping for the type of power fantasy that SR3 and 4 were, when this is a very different animal. I hope the low reviews - yours really is almost the only really positive one out there - won’t hurt it too much. It deserves a chance for sure.
@Apollo_Creed, glad to have you here and thanks for the kind words. Except for the bit about the meth bender. Also, ha ha, you liked the story in Horizon: Zero Dawn.
Oh, man, I keep forgetting Volition did Freespace. Gah. How could I forget that?
No disrespect taken, JDSIDD! As I’ve always said:
That is never my intention when reviewing a game. I have no idea what you should buy. I think it’s a pretty presumptuous for any reviewer to write that way. And I also never intend to change anyone’s mind.
I am going to take a “wait and see” approach but if anyone grok’s what I’m saying I’d love to hear some other feedback from the ‘oldheads’ about this.
I’m an oldhead, sort of, at least if we’re talking about age of reviewer, though that’s also true for many of the people who have been giving it really poor reviews so I don’t know if there’s a correlation to draw there.
I’ve put maybe 5 or 6 hours in now, so I can’t pretend to have a reviewer’s scope of the game, but honestly the inspirational material here to me feels like Crackdown as much as anything from the ARPG or Open World genres. Here’s a big city, you have some very cool traversal abilities and some big weapons, there are lots of enemies to shoot, have at it.
Layered on top of that, though, I agree with Tom that the systems in place are very Diablo 3. You slot your build from a set of available skills that you can then modify over time and synergize with your “armor and weapon” (in this case the other 2 Agents) bonuses. Go out, grind loot, level up, finish some missions, lather rinse repeat. But with so many different Agents to collect with so many variations per Agent, there’s a whole lot of room for player expression in the “blow up bad guys” formula, here.
There’s a lot to like, at least so far, and it’s a shame to see so many reviews seeming to summarily dismiss it out of hand as a failed effort. SR3 and 4 are great games, but I didn’t really need another one of those out of Volition. I’m glad to see them trying something that feels like their wheelhouse but also feels distinct and new.
I was set to buy this first thing today after reading Tom’s review, but then I saw all the mixed reviews and I backed off. Now after reading some of the reviews I am back to thinking I will go ahead and take the plunge. Tom has an excellent track record when it comes to steering me towards games I end up enjoying and would have skipped. Honestly if his review would have been after the wave of mixed review, as is usually the case, I probably wouldn’t have hesitated.
Totally understand that. What I meant was that I read reviews with an eye toward trying to figure out whether it’s something I would enjoy. I don’t expect you to make that decision for me. I’m looking to see if you like it and why so that I can make an informed decision. I’ve found that when you really like something, you can make it sound very good. As I said, I agree about half the time, so I usually have to do some more digging before I make a decision.
Your videos have actually been more helpful. Written criticism is nice, but it’s good to actually see the things you’re talking about. I think I’ve been happier with the stuff I’ve picked up after watching your videos.
Which reminds me that I haven’t watched the video for AoM yet. I think I’ll go do that.
So after playing for a few hours tonight I’m firmly in Tom’s camp here. I think this game is really something special. I’ve only unlocked the first here (after the original three) but already I’m really excited to unlock the rest and I’m glad I knew nothing about this game going in, I have no clue who the other agents are (beyond the ones i saw in Tom’s stream). I think having the mindset that this is an ARPG, instead of say an open-world game like the previous Saints really does help set the expectations. I can understand a reviewer being turned off by the humor but I have to wonder if some of these really negative reviews really played the game long enough to understand what it’s doing and how it’s structured. I mean I’ve seen quite a few reviews complain about repetitiveness but…that’s kind of the point? That’s like complaining that Diablo III is repetitive, the repetition is the method by which you experience the unique quality of the mechanics.
Yep. In an action RPG, the content is the characters, not the levels. That said, I really like bits of the city. And although I used to dread the Legion base “dungeons”, once I understood a bit better what Volition was doing, I now really like those bits.
I also really like the little bits of backstory they give the agents so far. The cutscenes are short and to the point and each agent seems to have a really distinct personality to go along with their unique play style.
I also really like this version of Seoul. It’s not your typical LA or NY and there seem to be some variety in the “districts” ate least from the little bit I’ve seen so far.
