2881

I think Olbermann in his final days at MSNBC and then at Current (who you say) was perhaps the only “liberal” I ever heard (there are probably others but I haven’t heard them) who could match the vitriol of a Hannity or Limbaugh. For a short while I tried listening to whatever that liberal radio network was a couple years ago and they were just strange. They were more like a 60’s hippy movie than an actual political force.

2882

Ah yes. The fact that in fact they’re moderates protesting against the people who are overthrowing the modern economic base of the country is irrelevant in Conservo-Land! (And what happens? They’re treated as enemies by most of the Republicans in city administration and so on…whereas the Tea Parties armed rallies are ignored!)

Trying to paint them in the same way as the Tea Party, who have been allowed to hijack the Republicans and move the Overton Window right, to the degree that they’re condemning in frenzied fits policies which not very long ago were Republican…

2883

But I think you’re just handwaving away the equivalence… I mean, Limbaugh certainly has a HUGE number of listeners (not me, but whatever). But MSNBC is a freaking nationally televised cable channel… And the vitriol spewed by folks on MSNBC is easilly just as bad as anywhere else.

Surely you wouldn’t give them a pass just because they are less commercially successful than Fox News? That does not somehow make them less partisan, right?

Hmm… I don’t think this is actually the case. They had a large impact in the past election, but I kind of get the feeling that their time has already come and gone. No one really liked what those folks actually did when they got into office.

For a short while I tried listening to whatever that liberal radio network was a couple years ago and they were just strange. They were more like a 60’s hippy movie than an actual political force.

Heh, ya… I forget the name of that channel, but I listened to it pretty regularly. Mainly Al Franken’s show… he had some crazy lady come on right before him, and I remember her literally shrieking at Ralph Nader, for his audacity to actually want to participate in the political process. Seriously, she was just screaming at him during the 2004 election, “WE CAN’T AFFORD YOU, RALPH!” over and over again, to the point where he literally just hung up on her.

Franken was funny as hell then too, because it was back during the time when he was feuding with O’Reilly, and they were both acting hillarious like little kids.

2884

The same way I root for Steve Jobs or John Lasseter or Joss Whedon: because they make something great that I really enjoy, and I’m really happy that they got some recognition and money for it! Why wouldn’t I root for those people? Is it okay to root for someone who doesn’t make a lot, but bad to someone who does? If so, maybe you need to look at your own personal biases. I don’t need to know people’s salaries to decide whether or not I should be happy for them.

Don’t misunderstand me. I don’t begrudge them their money, however I believe that in sports the $$$ figures are shoved in your face, both by the media and by the players and management. When you listen to a game you are told how much so and so got for each strikeout, hit, etc. Golfers are true contractors but to earn over $1million for a tournament win, to list the “money leaders” in the paper, to finalize the season with a tournament guaranteeing a $10 million first place prize.

I don’t think when you watch a movie or buy an IPod the salary of the director or Director of the Board is given to you in the credits or by the salesmen.

PS…Sorry for going off topic.

2885

OWS were moderates? Okay, maybe if some were moderates then the group in Oakland would be considered the equal of the Tea Party for wackiness as they were/are (they still exist) a group of anarchists.

2886

Yeah, feel free to make that OWS point when you see the Occupy Wall Street wing of the Democratic Party refusing to work with anybody in congress and threatening to shut down the government at every available turn because they never learned how compromise works.

Keep trying, guys. If you truly believe that Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow are in the same league as Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, you’re living in a fantasy land. The left has partisans who sometimes say inflammatory things because of course they do; we have political parties that believe very different things. What you’re doing is conflating partisanship with toxicity, and divisiveness with intractability.

That is to say, anybody you can name on the left is the Miller Light to the right’s 200-proof crazy. They’re both alcohol, but come on.

2887

There were a few anarchists involved, yes. Equally, there are a few racists in the Tea Party movement.

Also, when for reference were OWS getting behind and pushing a group which has cost trillions to the global economy as the Tea Party is behind the Corporatists?

2888

Keep trying, guys. If you truly believe that Chris Matthews or Rachel Maddow are in the same league as Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, you’re living in a fantasy land

Really? What exactly do you see as the difference?

Certainly, Limbaugh has a huge audience… but you seem to be suggesting that the folks who have shows on MSNBC aren’t actually as partisan?

Do you actually believe that? Do you ever watch MSNBC?

2889

I get the impression that some of the people trying to make comparisons to Rush Limbaugh have never actually listened to his show. He’s a fucking vile cretin. Nothing else comes close.

2890

Of course, all the racists were too busy being part of the Birther movement. You know, the one that accused the president of not being an American for months and months and was supported by dozens of elected GOP congresspeople? The one that got constant airplay on Fox? The one that produced images of the president with a bone through his nose? Remember that? Hey, remember when the president and his wife did a fist-bump and it was labeled as a terrorist act? Why was that?

I’m sure the left did the same thing.

2891

I have heard him, although it has been a long time. Perhaps he has somehow gotten even more extreme as time has passed.

I guess when I think of the extreme rightwing talking heads, I think of Hannity. And I see folks on MSNBC as being just as bad as the right wing talking heads on Fox, in terms of their partisanship.

I mean, MSNBC is hardly a news channel at all at this point. I had it on for a few hours a day or so ago, and so I got to watch Maddow, Sharpton, and the guy who came on before Maddow… and literally all they talked about throughout all three shows was how terrible Romney and the republicans were. Every guest, on every single show, was just spouting the same thing. They didn’t even bother PRETEND to be present an opposing view point. They had literally no guests who disagreed with anyone. They just had a bunch of people who stated variations of “The republicans are horrible monsters”, while the others nodded their heads, and until it became their turn to say the republicans were horrible monsters.

I watch MSNBC because, despite its extreme bias, they will say things that I was perhaps not aware of. I have to examine what they say and check it out on my own, but it provides me with ideas that I would perhaps not otherwise encounter… but at the same time, its partisanship and seething hatred directed towards those who they consider to be their political enemies is really extreme.

I’m kind of amazed that folks here don’t even seem to notice it at all.

2892

Sure, but the vitriol doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have the reach. I mean, if I shout about conservatives from my porch every night, who cares? My neighbors do, and probably soon the cops do too because dude, shut up already I’m trying to sleep. Beyond that it doesn’t matter, I’m just a crazy dude on a porch. Maybe one day I’ll see a doctor and get the help I need.

But give me a TV show, and give me millions of viewers? Now I matter. Now I’m helping shape the national discourse. That’s Limbaugh, and he’s got many, many more followers than Olbermann ever did. Hell, he’s got more followers than all of MSNBC. By a wide margin.

Hmm… I don’t think this is actually the case. They had a large impact in the past election, but I kind of get the feeling that their time has already come and gone. No one really liked what those folks actually did when they got into office.

But in the most recent set of primaries they once again got rid of a bunch of serving GOP congressfolks (many of whom were pretty darned conservative to begin with) and replaced them with hardline TP types. The thing about the TP is that they’re a minority of the GOP, but they’re the most active members of the GOP. So they can’t swing a presidential primary, because too many of the non-insane conservatives are paying attention and participating. But congressional primaries? No one cares, so the TP has disproportionate influence.

Also, I should note I was more aggressive and accusatory in tone than I should have been, and appreciate your restraint.

2893

Well, to be fair I’m one of the Anarchists who was involved in the UK’s Occupy movement. Of course, I’m a Mutualist - a moderate and a gradualist, but hey - “anarchist”. It’s a red flag for the far right.

What amuses me is they still happily run their web servers on the LAMP stack.

2894

That’s Limbaugh, and he’s got many, many more followers than Olbermann ever did. Hell, he’s got more followers than all of MSNBC. By a wide margin.

Well played.

2895

Olberman and Randi Rhodes are the only liberal media personalities I can think of that match the “they’re traitors” vitriol from Hannity et. al, much less the “whore pills” stuff.

The other angle is that they’re largely independent operators who aren’t that influential. No elected Democrats are ever forced to call up Olberman or Maddow and grovel out an apology like regularly happens with Limbaugh.

2896

Meh, Republicans will just trot out the adage about people who “stopped looking” for jobs. As if there is this huge percentage of Americans who have simply given up and are living on welfare for the rest of their lives. About 47% perhaps?

2897

Sure, but the vitriol doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have the reach. I mean, if I shout about conservatives from my porch every night, who cares? My neighbors do, and probably soon the cops do too because dude, shut up already I’m trying to sleep. Beyond that it doesn’t matter, I’m just a crazy dude on a porch. Maybe one day I’ll see a doctor and get the help I need.

But give me a TV show, and give me millions of viewers? Now I matter. Now I’m helping shape the national discourse. That’s Limbaugh, and he’s got many, many more followers than Olbermann ever did. Hell, he’s got more followers than all of MSNBC. By a wide margin.

Hrm… but don’t those people, who you admit are crazy partisans that spew vitriol, actually have TV shows with millions of viewers?

I mean, having a show on MSNBC isn’t shouting at folks from your porch.

Also, I should note I was more aggressive and accusatory in tone than I should have been, and appreciate your restraint.

I tend not to take offense, even at folks like Warren who just directly insult me.

I think the reason is that I know they aren’t really insulting me, but a caricature of me that they’ve constructed in their minds, largely due to the kind of stuff we’re talking about here. There’s some mental construct of “conservative” that gets attacked, and to a large degree here, I may be perceived as more conservative than I actually am just due to the relative location on the political spectrum that I am compared to many here. When talking with more conservative groups, I am generally regarded as more liberal, since in those cases the differences between my views and THEIRS become highlighted. So, in those groups I’ll end up focusing more on things like environmental protection, or social equality, or ending the drug war, etc. Here my differences with the fairly leftish community get highlighted…because if someone just says something I agree with, I don’t usually bother just saying, “Yeah!” cause what’s the point.

“Personal” attacks here don’t really mean much, because most of us don’t really know each other on any kind of personal level. I disagree with many of my best friends in real life… so simply disagreeing with me does not make me actually think that anyone here is a bad person. And if folks here think that I’m a bad person, I suspect that they aren’t really judging me, since they don’t really know who I am as a person. They only know the construct.

2898

Just offhand, I would guess that they were treated as enemies because of occupying the same area for months on end, disrupting local business, throwing trash cans through store windows, and committing rape. As far as I know, the Tea Party rallies didn’t tend to have any of those things.

Good point. Yeah, I’m not a huge sports guy, so I suppose I don’t pay attention to that side of things. I agree that the salary portion shouldn’t really be an issue at all, and certainly not at the level of, “This guy just made $300,000 for a strikeout!”

They are just as vitriolic, but they aren’t as good at being successful.

If you’re saying that the difference between “partisanship” and “toxicity” is the level of success, then I guess the left is lucky that they don’t have that same level of success, but it’s not for lack of trying.

You mean like when the left accused the President of lying his way through his military career, and excusing his way out of duty because he had a famous father? And they produced documents to supposedly prove that, but they ended up being fake? And it cost a renowned news reporter his job, because he was so quick to find something to accuse the President of that he didn’t even check his sources? Something like that?

So the only difference between someone like Limbaugh and someone like Maddow is the level of success. Class warfare rears its ugly head once again!

2899

Limbaugh does an act, he is like a shock comedian. Some of his stuff is really vile and other stuff can be humorous.

I kinda like Maddow but she tries almost too hard. Chris Mathews has literally gone crazy this election cycle.

2900

Well, Gallup’s not inspiring a lot of confidence of late, so I’ll wait for the BLS figures if it’s all the same to you. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’d be thrilled if it were so, but you know…