3001

Honest question, as I don’t really know who this Morris fellow is. Why not?

3002

Well, I guess that my original point, when I said that folks on the left engaged in the same kind of demonization, I was not actually just limiting it to high ranking “leaders” of the left. Certainly, I think they do in fact engage in that behavior, but I’m also speaking about the feelings of so many folks who are extremely partisan on the left… not just the leaders, but tons of people who have seemingly bought into it.

It strikes me as weird that there are folks who are arguing that the left doesn’t demonize the right… and then proceed to demonize the right.

EDIT:
And… now there’s a thread talking about how conservatives are either evil tricksters, or idiots. Nice.

3003

Well, not ALL conservatives, just the rich, loud ones who are in charge. ;)

3004

Dick Morris is notoriously, hilariously, loudly wrong about…everything. Dude makes predictions, and you can make a killing by betting the opposite. He predicted a John McCain win in 2008 up until the final week or so, and even then was spending time in the last week saying that McCain was going to surprise people with the numbers he pulled in Pennsylvania and Ohio. (Surprising all right: he way underperformed his polls.)

Having Dick Morris say you’re going to win is like Sports Illustrated putting you on the cover, or EA Sports sticking you on the Madden box.

There is no bigger jinx.

On hearing the news of Morris hedging on Romney, Nate Silver tweeted “SELL OBAMA ON INTRADE!!”

3005

Yes, because both parties passed the Budget Control Act, which says that you have to include a way to pay for any bill that you pass. So Democrats propose a bill that doesn’t include sufficient funding, then Republicans want to stick to the rules that everyone agreed on beforehand…and Republicans are the bad guys for wanting to obey the rules. Because, sure, Democrats want to bend the rules, but…veterans!

It was addressed, in the opposition to the bill. But the minority of Republicans can’t just make sweeping changes to the bill themselves; they need the Democrats to sign off on it. All they can really do is vote it down and voice their opposition, which they did. Why haven’t Democrats come forward with a new bill that addresses those problems?

The whole “subsidies for oil companies” thing is one of the most misleading issues I’ve heard. First of all, they are not subsidies; they are tax breaks. Secondly, calling them “subsidies for oil companies” implies that they are special exemptions that only apply to the oil companies. They aren’t: They are tax breaks that all companies get, but Democrats want to remove those tax breaks just for oil companies, because they make so much money. So it’s not a special exemption that oil companies get; it’s treating them the same as every other company.

It’s not a “compromise” to ask Democrats to stick to the same rules they already agreed to.

3006

Huh, sounds like a desperate gamble to me, if nothing else.

3007

Let it go, Timex. If you can’t find a single Democrat with a nationally-syndicated radio show with the same audience as Rush Limbaugh, who specifically called Bush a “retard,” then that obviously means that the left doesn’t demonize the right.

3008

“You’re bad and here’s why you’re bad.”

“Well, you’re just as bad!”

“No I’m not.”

“Well, I can’t prove you’re as bad as me. But I’m pretty sure you are.”

How does this logic get from your brain to your mouth without anything getting in the way?

3009

Houngan, you are just handwaving away things that you don’t want to see… or you are making an empty argument of “well the other side does it too!” which is actually exactly my original argument!

Yes, extreme right wingers call Obama a socialist! And it is dumb! Just like Olberman calling Bush a fascist was dumb!

Calling someone a retard is not, as you say, “a slur against the mentally handicapped”. It’s exactly the same as calling someone an idiot. You are commenting that their intelligence is below normal. You are suggesting that they have the mental faculties of a retarded person. That’s what it means.

I mean, I guess you can take offense at the use of the word retarded… I know Brett yelled at me in the past for using it. But that’s more about it being offensive to retarded people somehow… not that it is any MORE offensive to the person you are calling retarded. Because you are just calling them an idiot.

The offense would be taken by, presumably, mentally handicapped people, because you are using their state as a pejorative term. But that doesn’t make the statement somehow more extreme… it just makes it less sensitive towards that other group.

Why is it offensive to Obama, more so than if you just called him an idiot? It’s not. Because he’s not ACTUALLY a mentally handicapped person that you are using a less pleasant term to describe. That is, if you called him “mentally handicapped” it wouldn’t make the statement better, right? No, because the problem is that you are just attacking him as a person. I mean, hell, idiot MEANS mentally handicapped person, just like retard does.

But anyway, if you do not think that the left engages in demonization of the right, then I will not be able to convince you. It means that you see things which I consider to be exactly that, and don’t see them that way. You see someone calling Bush an idiot, and find nothing wrong with it. You see folks calling conservatives evil/stupid people, and simply nod your head. If you cannot see how those perspectives prevent exchange of ideas and compromise, then I’m not sure how to proceed.

3010

No…it really, really isn’t. They have pretty different connotations that go beyond simple intelligence.

3011

Really? Because they’re considered synonyms in the english language. And when someone says, “you’re a retard”, it’s exactly the same as if they say, “you’re an idiot”. Or at least, that’s how every single person that I have ever heard say it, ever, has used it. When I say “that’s retarded” it’s exactly the same as me saying “that’s stupid”.

Hell, at one point, terms like idiot and moron were literally the clinical terms used to describe people with mental retardation.

As I said, I know that some folks take offense to the term, because they feel that it is offensive towards mentally handicapped people. But THAT is who you are possibly offending (other than the offense derived from the fact that you are calling the person an idiot).

What are the actual connotations that you think are implied toward the target of the insult? That you’re calling them “full-blown retard” rather than “just kind of retarded”. You’re not just calling them dumb… you’re calling them REALLY dumb!

3012

You’re about 1000% wrong. And stop saying that.

3013

Timex, with all due respect, your explanation at the term and defense of its usage is just as insulting as the word itself. Please stop.

3014

Ok dude, I didn’t mean to insult you. I apologize.
Can you explain the insult to me though? I’m asking this, not because I do not believe that you are insulted, but because I do not understand the nature of the insult. That is, I don’t understand who exactly is being insulted… the person it’s directed at, or the group that it references.

I also an unclear on why it is so much more offensive than terms like moron, or idiot, which have historically been used as psychological terms for mild and profound mental retardation, respectively.

If you find this so offensive that you can’t even discuss it, so be it, but I’m not just trying to push your buttons here. There seems to be some suggestion that it’s on the same level as a racial slur, and I just don’t see that as being even remotely the case.

Also… just for the lulz, I did a search on the forum for the word “retarded” and sure enough, everyone seems to use it as I described… Including, surprisingly enough, some of the same people from this very thread that are claiming that it is a terrible slur.

3015

Twenty years ago they would have meant the same thing to 99% of the people that heard them used. Now, with political correctness and supposedly a more caring society they no longer mean the same thing. And you are evil for forgetting that or not having learned that.

3016

Wow. Just wow at this thread.

3017

Maybe this will help you to understand since you seem to be having difficulty understanding.

An Open Letter to Ann Coulter
Posted on October 23, 2012 by Tim Shriver

John Franklin Stephens

The following is a guest post in the form of an open letter from Special Olympics athlete and global messenger John Franklin Stephens to Ann Coulter after this tweet during last night’s Presidential debate.

Dear Ann Coulter,

Come on Ms. Coulter, you aren’t dumb and you aren’t shallow. So why are you continually using a word like the R-word as an insult?

I’m a 30 year old man with Down syndrome who has struggled with the public’s perception that an intellectual disability means that I am dumb and shallow. I am not either of those things, but I do process information more slowly than the rest of you. In fact it has taken me all day to figure out how to respond to your use of the R-word last night.

I thought first of asking whether you meant to describe the President as someone who was bullied as a child by people like you, but rose above it to find a way to succeed in life as many of my fellow Special Olympians have.

Then I wondered if you meant to describe him as someone who has to struggle to be thoughtful about everything he says, as everyone else races from one snarkey sound bite to the next.

Finally, I wondered if you meant to degrade him as someone who is likely to receive bad health care, live in low grade housing with very little income and still manages to see life as a wonderful gift.

Because, Ms. Coulter, that is who we are – and much, much more.

After I saw your tweet, I realized you just wanted to belittle the President by linking him to people like me. You assumed that people would understand and accept that being linked to someone like me is an insult and you assumed you could get away with it and still appear on TV.

I have to wonder if you considered other hateful words but recoiled from the backlash.

Well, Ms. Coulter, you, and society, need to learn that being compared to people like me should be considered a badge of honor.

No one overcomes more than we do and still loves life so much.

Come join us someday at Special Olympics. See if you can walk away with your heart unchanged.

A friend you haven’t made yet,
John Franklin Stephens
Global Messenger
Special Olympics Virginia

3018

See, I need to walk you back to what we are actually talking about here.

(1) You still can’t seem to bring yourself to admit that there is a difference between “Let’s kill those guys” (footnote 1) demonization vs “What a fucking dickhead” demonization.

(2) Hedging your bets a little, you also keep pursuing this really, really, really weird bit of rhetoric that when a Republican politician or major media figure says “Let’s kill those guys”, it’s somehow ok, because they didn’t really, like, mean it, or something.

(3) After dodging both of these points, you finish up by doing the triple lutz of saying that WarrenM calling Bush a dickhead is essentially the same as Rush Limbaugh telling his audience of millions “Let’s kill those guys.”(footnote 2)

So, my problem with everything you’re arguing now is that, no, stop, you’re wrong, back the fuck up to step one and explain to me again how you can sit in pretend-civilized conversation and claim to hold the opinion that saying “Let’s kill those guys” is no worse than being generally mean or insulting.

I’m not joking. You need to do this. I - and I suspect most people - can’t take you seriously about anything (footnote 3) if you can’t even acknowledge that exhortations to violence are worse, more dangerous, and more problematic than other forms of speech. If you can’t acknowledge that, then you quite literally have nothing of value to say about anything, to anyone, ever.

Footnote 1: Not an actual quotation. Paraphrased to make the point in 1-syllable words.
Footnote 2: It’s not.
Footnote 3: Including smartphones

3019

I remember when President Obama compared his bowling to the Special Olympics. Can you point me to the URL for the Open Letter to President Obama? I’m sure it must be on the same site, but I can’t find it.

3020

Maybe this will help you to understand since you seem to be having difficulty understanding.

Ya, I understand that folks feel that it is insulting to folks who have mental handicaps… I explicitly stated that.

But that doesn’t mean that it is somehow more insulting to the person it’s being used again. It means it’s an insensitive thing to say… and it’s insensitive to OTHER people, not to Obama.