Indeed, however this is old ground around these parts. People will see what they want to see. What’s indisputable is that he stole a part of his stump speech. Of course, in appearances prior to that he did credit the original speaker. The one time he didn’t, he got nailed for it and deservedly so: those in the audience likely hadn’t heard the story before and would therefore not take into account that it came from somebody else. The press, of course, DID know story and spotted what happened. That’s a big no-no, whether an innocent mistake or a blatant attempt to garner appeal.
Timex
1602
Even if you ignore all of the other blatently ridiculous lies that he throws out in that 30 second tirade, even that one is blatently false.
He says, specifically that he graduated with 3 degrees from undergraduate school. There is no way that can possibly be interpreted as the truth.
Seriously though, watch the video from 1988… essentially every single claim he makes is totally false. He didn’t win the award he cited, he didn’t graduate in the top of his class (he graduated near the very bottom), he didn’t have a full academic scholarship (which is funny, because he not only claims this, but repeats it and says that he was the ONLY one to have such a scholarship). He didn’t graduate with 3 degrees from undergraduate school.
NONE of what he said was true… it’s totally insane.
Of course, all of this makes him a pathalogical liar, right?
Timex
1604
Ya, seemingly being incapable of telling the truth about things that are easily checked, to the extent that it destroys your presidential campaign pretty much does make him a pathological liar.
1988? No, surely not! No one was ALIVE then…
Incapable? He was quite capable and still is. What makes you think he’s incapable? He simply didn’t at a couple of points. That was a choice - and a bad one at that - not a compulsion. Perhaps your definition of “pathological” is different from most. Otherwise, both candidates for president this year would easily fall into the same category many times over.
eg -
Romney saying if he overpaid his taxes then he wouldn’t be fit for office … and then overpaying his taxes, yet still inexplicably trying to get people to vote for him.
9/10th’s of Obama’s campaign platform in 2007 that simply didn’t get accomplished.
Timex
1607
See, I’m actually questioning his ability to make the choice.
In the 1988 campaign, Biden was already under the microscope at that point for lying… and then he went on to not just say one lie, but to spew forth a whole string of crazy lies.
Why would he do that? As I said, it either means that he basically thinks everyone else is a bunch of idiots and that they’ll never catch him in his lies (despite the fact that they repeatedly catch him in his lies), or he can’t help lying.
I mean, really, his campaign was already on the ropes due to lying. He needed to focus on fighting that image that he was a liar, and then he followed up with more lies. He’s either crazy or stupid, take your pick.
Ok, can you explain how you think it’s a disease?
Timex
1609
Jason, the term pathological liar is generally used interchangably with compulsive liar, or someone who basically just lies all the time out of habit.
So, not actually a sociopath, but someone who is just used to lying all the time.
He’s a Democrat, and therefore a disease?
Well, if you’re going to take a heated moment that occurred 24 years ago as being indicative of a man’s mental state and/or character, I can’t stop you. I can say it’s foolish and only makes sense to do if you’re trying desperately to find something wrong about someone, but I can’t stop you.
One moment in time 24 years ago, and another time in school 46 years ago, stacked up against a very well documented 39 years of work in public office. If those things really make him pathological, then I think we’ve all got some serious mental defects to deal with.
Funny how you’re saying that after that Supernatural metaphor you made in one of these threads not long ago.
You’re a great guy, Brian, and you contribute so much elsewhere on these forums that I give you a pass for it, but the only thing you ever do in P&R here and D&D at yonder BF is mindless partisan cheerleading, and it really gets tiresome.
Those three polls are D+9, D+9, and D+11 samples (or near that; OH or FL might be D+8 instead). I think they were D+7, D+8, and D+7 in 2008. Another recent Quinnipiac poll shows Republicans have a 20-point voter enthusiasm advantage in PA. I don’t buy that the Democrats are going to meet or exceed their landmark 2008 turnout this year.
Edit: I’d certainly buy that Obama is up maybe 3-5 points in OH, FL, or PA, given incumbency advantages and Romney’s performances to date, but 9-12 seems outside the realm of possibility to me. I guess we’ll see in a month and a bit.
Hugin
1613
Biden is insecure about his intelligence and people’s perception of his intelligence so behind the scenes he’s always working a little too hard to be a statesman and a policy expert and seen as a smart guy. He reads what smart people have said and written and tries to internalize those things, and he embellishes his own intellectual achievements, again because of insecurity.
He knows he’s prone to gaffes and he knows people see him as that crazy uncle and he doesn’t want people to think he’s dumb. But again, he tries too hard. Biden is not dumb, but his efforts to show people he isn’t have gotten him into trouble.
I truly think the plagiarism thing was an honest mistake, he’d attributed the quotes properly several times in the past, I see no reason why he’d suddenly stop then except because he forgot. His embellishing his personal achievements though is purely his own fault and failing. And it leads him to have a rep behind the scenes as being prone to pedantry and bloviation. Which leads right back to the rep as the crazy uncle who shows up at Thanksgiving, and tells wacky stores you can’t quite believe.
He’s not a pathological liar in the sense of having a neurological inability to tell the truth even when lying gains him nothing, and he doesn’t have a pattern of lying about his opponents for political gain (at least, no more than average for a modern politician). He is certainly by any reasonable standard vastly more honest in the political sphere than Romney. And the flip side is, he’s possibly the most emotionally honest major politician in Washington.
There’s a clip floating around the web of him speaking, at the TAPS survivors seminar. To a crowd of families of veterans about lost loved ones, the grief he felt when his first wife died, how he dealt with his depression, etc. He rambles a bit, but it’s an enormously open, empathetic, vulnerable speech he gives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLSjrS0bb08#t=1m30s
It’s why I gave him a break (eventually) when he said painfully clumsy stuff like “Obama is clean and articulate”.
Timex
1614
Dude, that was merely an awesome example of Biden being a crazy liar. It’s by no means the only time he told a crazy lie.
His history is literally full of him lying about all kinds of stuff. You can find mountains of them through cursory searches of the internet.
The guy is not honest.
Biden is insecure about his intelligence and people’s perception of his intelligence so behind the scenes he’s always working a little too hard to be a statesman and a policy expert and seen as a smart guy. He reads what smart people have said and written and tries to internalize those things, and he embellishes his own intellectual achievements, again because of insecurity.
I could certainly see this. It matches up well with that clip from 88, where he opens up by shouting down the guy, saying how he’s sure his IQ is higher than the audience member’s.
Sorry Fishy, just trying to bring some levity. ;) I’m actually new at this whole political arguing thing, so I’m mostly just watching and learning (and ignoring personal jabs). ;)
It’s only used interchangably by DC whores who should know better. Normal people do not talk like that that.
“Lies a lot” is fine, I’m just tired of seeing the ridiculous disease term.
I welcome honest discussion. You’re probably the most likable person on Qt3, and you don’t even have to worry about getting jumped on for being outside the leftist Qt3 consensus (:P)—bring some analysis! Doing is a great way to learn, and I seriously doubt anyone here would be able to bring themselves to type a nasty reply to you, of all people.
KWhit
1618
Literally full? Literally?
Timex
1619
Actually, normal people do in fact talk like that.
Regardless, your attempt to nitpick a semantic argument and ignore the ridiculous lies is silly.
Timex
1620
Yes, all of the bits are about his lies.
