1881

<tea party>LET 'EM DIE!</tea party>

1882

Fucking hell Timex, even jails and prisons respect dietary needs/religions. Why do you always have to take the position of devil’s advocate? Staying kosher is a really big deal to some people, especially orthodox Jews. If they were told they had to eat non-kosher food, they wouldn’t eat it. They’d starve themselves. Some vegetarians and vegans are the same way. Is starvation a negative health impact? Which would cost more, feeding starving people intravenously because they now need medical care, or simply giving them the food that their dietary restrictions require?

What if I wanted better food, and so I went on a hunger strike. Is the state then obligated to give me better food, up to some arbitrary standard which I set myself?

Don’t prop up a bullshit straw man of some imaginary person who invents a cult that can only eat lobster and steak. That’s called being disingenuous, you fuck.

Heh.

Eating kosher goes back thousands of years for these people.

So that’s the key point? That their religious rules are OLD?

You’re talking about the government spending more money on food, and thus being able to feed less people, in order to have some of that food be handled in specific ways, including being blessed by a Rabbi.

And somehow, in this crowd, I am the only person who even considers that perhaps that’s weird.

Ultimately, if it doesn’t cost any more, I say whatever. But if it is costing something like an extra $5 a meal? Then you’d be talking some serious money in the long haul, and that expenditure means that you’re sacrificing something else.

1883

Hell, Timex. I’m a little disappointed in you. Why even buy different foods? Just get whatever is cheapest and has the nutritional value they need and repeat that menu every day.

Hell, these are old people at the twilight of their lives. No need to go crazy on expenditures. Why not just stop supporting these people altogther? They’re just drains on the economy and infrastructure. Tell them to support themselves or go die somewhere out of the way.

1884

I dont mean to troll here, but really, once someone else is paying for your food, why is it so absurd that you’d lose the right to choose vegetarian (or vegan, etc.)? Kosher is a bit less of a personal choice and more of a historical commandment, so that’s a bit more murky. But figuring the argument for vegetarianism is: now that we are living in a society where we don’t need to eat meat to survive, it is immoral to do so— once you lose the ability to facilitate that choice for yourself, why are you still entitled to a government subsidized vegetarian/vegan cuisine? I dont even get the sensible argument against it at that point; would you rather die than eat meat to survive? That’s not veganism, that’s near-jainism.

1885

You’re helping them maintain a little dignity in their final years. I think that’s worth the extra $5.

1886

I find this a little strange that its ok for government to pay extra for religious preferences when anyplace else the government does something religious many people here scream about how evil and wrong that is.

1887

My great-grandmother ate a lot ice cream as she was nearing death. It was tasty, she liked it, it was familiar, and she could keep it down. We made sure she was getting the nutrients whatnot elsewhere, and let her eat exactly whatever the fuck she liked.

Because she was 90 fucking years old. Because I’m not obsessed with efficiency and making sure all the square pegs go in square holes, I don’t actually mind letting people who are almost a century old be as picky as they want to.

1888

It’s because I don’t give a shit if it’s a religious preference or not. I don’t care why you keep kosher or don’t eat meat or whatever. It’s a little human dignity and compassion, that’s all.

1889

You’re making a big assumption about why people are vegetarian, but if you’re looking at it from an economic perspective, it would probably go the other way: i.e. it’s probably cheaper to be vegetarian than it is to eat meat, so probably the government should just buy carrots and processed soy chow for everybody.

1890

Yeah, it’s like when soldiers fighting in the US military are killed in action and want to be buried according to the tenets of their faith. Not on my dime! Fuck those guys!

1891

$5 per person isnt a trivial sum though. You could feed twice as many people for the cost of allowing the first group to eat kosher.

admittedly, that’s not the choice, but again, $5 per person isnt trivial.

1892

Depends on how long they live. Arguably, it’s better to do this for old people than anybody else.

What?

1893

Ha, i didnt take into account a super low quality vegetarian economy option. But about the moral reasons behind vegetarianism, I think im right on. As a moral vegetarian/vegan, you recognize the immorality of some part of(if not the entire) process of killing animals for food when you don’t have to.

To be against killing animals even for sustenance, even if you had no other choice, that’s not just vegetarianism— like i said before, that sounds more to me like jainism.

That’s equating an animals life with your own. Which, let’s be clear, is nuts.

1894

Cancel a bomber or two, and feed the elderly Jews.

1895

I was just saying that arguing that the $5 could be better spent feeding more people isnt completely fair because that’s not (likely) where that money would go.

…which is what madhatter is getting at.

1896

Yeah, sorry, I was just being intentionally flippant about old people dying. It sounded funnier in my head than it did in text.

1897

Yes that is exactly what I said, get a clue for once idiot.

I am just of the opinion that the government should’t have to pay more just because someone has made the choice of a specific way to eat for religious reasons.

1898

Medicare is a state-run insurance program, not alms for beggars. Jesus christ.

1899

Well, ultimately this type of thing is a little different. Those soldiers are actually working and providing some service, and as a result they are compensated. Part of that compensation includes things like burial.

My great-grandmother ate a lot ice cream as she was nearing death. It was tasty, she liked it, it was familiar, and she could keep it down. We made sure she was getting the nutrients whatnot elsewhere, and let her eat exactly whatever the fuck she liked.

Because she was 90 fucking years old. Because I’m not obsessed with efficiency and making sure all the square pegs go in square holes, I don’t actually mind letting people who are almost a century old be as picky as they want to.

Yeah, because she was your grandmother.

Whether you realized it or not, you made calls regarding those tradeoffs… It just happened to be the case that you had plenty of money, or you had emotional ties that outweighed everything else.

But if you’re dealing with things on the level of a freaking huge government, you really can’t run it like your family. You don’t have emotional attachment. Efficiency actually matters, because you’re talking about how to best take care of millions of people, not your one single grandmother. And frankly, if the state were paying for her food, your grandmother wouldn’t likely have been able to just eat as much ice cream as she wanted.

“Hey guys, you should just be nice cause they’re old!” isn’t a real counterargument here. You can’t just sidestep the underlying issues, and accuse anyone who even dares question them of hating jews or old people or whatever.

Ultimately, if you run the system inefficiently, more people will end up suffering because you’ll be wasting resources that could be used to help them. There is nothing compassionate about that.

1900

Having just gone through this with my father most reputable establishments will (using medicare dollars) allow for differing dietary habits. They will ask about dietary likes/dislikes and health needs, favorite foods and foods they dislike. Of course then whatever they fix (90% anyway) looks exactly the same and smells wretched. :)

And mrmolecule (whenever I see your name for some stupid reason I think mr moleman) they did allow my dad all the ice cream he wanted because it was easy for him to swallow, at least up to the point when he couldn’t swallow anymore.