2017: Whither Democrats?


And based on the remarks in this topic, they were correct in choosing Trump to fix issues with the middle class because the “fix” to the Democrats seems to be… not just continue to screw them but screw them more. So they go to the guy that is a billionaire who doesn’t seem to care about the poor or a lot of groups, or the Democrats that basically say open up your wallets and like it.


Affordable health care and education, workplace safety, family leave et al, yep totally designed to screw the middle class. After all gutting medicare/medicaid/social security, consumer protection, any and all regulations will certainly help the middle class.

That’s fucking brilliant.


You’re not paying attention, which is part of the problem. What percentage of the Middle Class is getting their healthcare outside of their employers. If you’re a professional, it’s unlikely your workplace safety is in jeopardy. I don’t know what your company offers, but mine already offers family leave.

You’re just proving my point.


For a lot of those middle class folks, all they saw with the ACA was price hikes, and they associated the two with each other (and somewhat rightly).

I have no clue why the Dems didn’t run harder on things like the CFPB and net neutrality.


no issues there.

But hey if rolling your eyes is your answer to the concern of the upper-middle class which can be won on social issues and regulations but questions the economic side of some of the plans I’m sure the ranks will just swell the next time around.


Gif post fail.

  1. Your definition of middle class is extremely narrow.
  2. Health care costs prior to ACA rose exponentially (we never had the same insurance for more than 2 years until ACA, but since it’s been the same with smaller increases)
    2a. Curtailing and bringing down health care helps everyone (this with the caveat that ACA is far, far from perfect and has been successfully broken by Congress.)
  3. Raising the standards of living for everyone helps the economy far more than giving the richest people tax cuts

Or those of us who are better of can adopt your attitude instead: “Fuck you, I got mine.”


So I accidentally had this topic on mute because Discourse. Sorry for lobbing a grenade and vanishing. Luckily you lot are more than capable of carrying the torch in the face of weird-ass opposition like “the Democrats just aren’t centrist enough!” and “but what about Republican voters?”

And let’s not forget the all-time classic, “Bernie Sanders wants to screw the middle class!” That one might be the knee-slappinest of them all.


Yeah if that was my attitude, I’d be a Trump support. The upper-middle class and middle middle class shrank, it didn’t disappear.

Again, you are not disproving me but yeah fuck you, got mine… yep, that’s why a few of us that have ours stuck with the Democrats just so we could have someone like you roll your eyes at us and lift your middle finger when we say hey can we talk about this without insults…

guess not.

So yeah, rinse and repeat, go more extreme… not a sound plan but clearly there is no room for discussion about it which is not like the Trump camp how exactly?


Because that attitude and statement is totally conducive for open discussion.


What in that statement isn’t saying “I don’t need those things ergo they are not important.” Sounds exactly like FYIGM.


Except of course we all know that they’re flat-out wrong in this regard. Republicans want to and now will strip them of the protections and minute progress made for workers in this country. I feel comfortable saying “It’s not my fault if white working class voters in PA don’t understand that,” because it’s not the Democrats who stripped funding from public schools and pushed the endless hate refrain of AM radio and Fox news on the country that lead to an electorate so goddamned fucking retarded that they think a Republican will ever do anything to help the middle or lower classes in this country.

Democrats provide solutions that disaffected Rust Belters don’t like. They don’t want cheap college to learn new skills and social safety nets to prop them up when they’re battered down by a changing world. They want a return to the old world, and Donald Trump promised them he’d do that. That it was painfully obvious to everyone else that the “good old days” he was talking about was the 1850s and not the 1950s isn’t all that surprising when you look at the average Trump voter.

So fuck yes I’m going to roll my eyes. These people are a lost cause. They’re pining for a world that doesn’t exist and refusing solutions that will work, and putting their lot in with the party that has dedicated itself exclusively to gutting the middle and lower classes for decades to benefit the ultra rich.

Sure, Democrats are gonna raise your taxes 10%. You’ll get a far better and easier to survive country as a result. The Republicans are just going to bulldoze your house, replace it with an oil well, and let your kids die in the unrestricted runoff flowing out from it, and they’re still not gonna give you your old job back, because they’d rather pay one of their rich buddies to build oil robots.


My taxes would increase a lot more than 10% at $2,000 per month, not a year, per month. But yeah, you guys sold me. Democrats don’t need or want me. Got it.


There’s not really anything to convince. There’s the party of “burn the goddamned world to the ground” and the party of “let’s actually help each other.” I don’t really have much interest in the people who look at the first of those and say “Yeah those guys seem to have the right of it.”


What in God’s name are you on about, where your taxes are increasing by $2k/mo? Some no-doubt fair and balanced analysis of various of Sanders’ campaign promises?

Because if you think that’s what any of the “Democrats need to move left” contingent are arguing, well…have fun, I guess.


Adam, did you read Bernie’s plan in it’s entirety at all? Did you see the chart, keeping in mind that the chart was grossly, grossly underestimated on what he needed to do what he wanted. The calculations were there. He did more than say I’m going to build a wall at a great deal… he released numbers. I read them, and the consesus is he underestimated the cost. His chart did not cover it.

As for burn the world to the ground or socialism… I’m not a socialist. If someone says they want to do something that cost 20 millions dollars, and I say, that seems high, can we consider looking at what 15 million, that does not mean I’m burning the world down, and if the answer is roll your eyes, fuck you, selfish bitch… that’s not an open party. That’s a Trump-like response.


I have never hidden the fact that I am an enormous authoritarian; I’m just a hardcore leftist one. I have no interest in existing in a world where any vestige of conservatism is allowed to survive.

But still, your options here are

A) Work with the party that’s shooting for the $20m plan to house the homeless around town permanently and sustainably to ensure their numbers work and plan is solid,
B) Throw your lot in with the party that wants to burn the homeless for fuel when the oil runs out
C) I guess vote for Jill “Magic Rocks” Stein???


Jesus Christ.


Heh, yeah so you didn’t read it. Got it. If you did, you wouldn’t ask me that question and post a straw-man.


Man the echo chamber sure is strong around here.


Oh, horseshit. You presented some weird alternate reality in which you’re being derided as a “selfish bitch” for calmly and reasonably, nay even humbly asking why we should spend so mush gosh darn money on things.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there’s a consensus among those critical of Sanders’ campaign promises and numbers that they don’t add up to being budget-neutral. This is my shocked face. What in the everliving fuck that has to do with my contention that the working class didn’t leave the Democrats but rather that the Democratic Party left them, I have no earthly idea.


You’ve been out of this conversation for how long? I have no idea what you’re talking about anymore. Just in case you missed it, the Democrats didn’t win. We’re talking about what might need to change in order to fix that a second time around. I don’t think giving the middle class and upper middle class and the working class a middle finger is going to work. And before you try to sell them on all the great that plans like Bernie’s plan was supposedly going to offer, it’s important to know… the numbers do not support your argument.