2 years ago I would have called that crazy, but now it’s clear it needs to be abolished and recreated from whole cloth. It’s full of white supremacists for garb’s sake.
I always assumed the Democratic Socialists in the US were aiming for a model like western Europe – more Norway than the U.S.S.R. My assumption was not entirely correct:
But if the D.S.A. is happy to work alongside liberals, its members are generally serious about the “socialist” part of democratic socialist. Its constitution envisions “a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships.
All kinds of crazy stuff works its way into platforms, and it doesn’t all have the same weight. Still, this was not a pleasant surprise.
The Democratic Party is as in danger of being taken over by socialists as the Republican Party is of being taken over by Libertarians.
That is to say, it’s not.
Thing is… we got along forever without ICE. Just roll it back into Customs/INS where it always was.
Everything I’ve ever heard about ICE, not just this latest round, but over the years, has made me cringe. They function with essentially no oversight or way to appeal their decisions. I’d be happy to abolish them.
We already have an FBI that investigates crime within the US and a border patrol that keeps people from entering illegally. If those two agencies aren’t up to the task of dealing with illegal immigrants, we need to revise the immigrant laws and the border security protocols, not beef up some goon squad that hauls in every vaguely-brown person who looks at them funny.
So ICE does more than chase down criminals. They’re in the news for that right now, but their functions are a bit more broad than that. For example, they have a program to teach businesses how to spot fake IDs, help them understand the documents they use to make sure they hire someone legally able to work in this country.
ICE didn’t even exist prior to 2002.
Well, that’s not the part of ICE people want to abolish - no reason that function and its associated jobs couldn’t just be rolled into some other agency like INS or just DHS proper
They merged a couple of other groups to form it. It wasn’t made out of thin air.
When someone says they want to abolish ICE… they’re making a holistic statement.
I’m not sure what you mean by that, but people are talking about disbanding the agency and no longer doing the kind of goon squad stuff it is currently in the news for. They aren’t looking at its charter and saying that every one of its functions must cease to exist
The headline is abolish ICE, like the whole thing. I suspect most people don’t know everything they do, they just know what the media is showing. We need something in place to cover those other things before it’s dissolved.
Yes, but that formation doesn’t really make much sense.
It was essentially a combination of the Customs service, and INS. But the thing is, the INS part of it has become totally dominant. There’s not really a good argument for why customs and immigration should be combined into a single unit. One deals with trade, and one deals with people.
ICE has become corrupt and full of Nazis. Sometimes you need to pull the weeds by roots in order to fix the problem.
No, we don’t. Dissolving it can just mean a law that moves its important other functions to other agencies.
If you read above, I am not disagreeing, but they have other functions that need to continue. I am not listing them all. That’s just an example.
I respectfully disagree. I don’t think everyone knows all they do today, and you don’t just drop something. It’s not like the TSA that just formed overnight. They merged a few groups to form ICE.
I don’t understand why this is a sticking point. You are saying that we need to continue having these racist raids because we also have some desk jobs that would be good keep around? If they merged groups to form it, they can unmerge them to dissolve it. You don’t have to fire everyone in the agency to get rid of the agency. Nitpicking about having “something ready to go” is begging the issue. Abolish ICE, not by fiat in some Trump tweet, but by an act of Congress, figure out the details when you craft the bill, not when you debate it in public. “We need to get rid of the Gestapo, but only after we’ve secured the desk jobs we might possibly need” is a recipe for never changing anything.
“Let’s fix immigration, but only after we’ve ensured that every current detail of immigration law is thoroughly debated and evaluated to discover whether or not we need it!”
“Let’s simplify the tax code, but before we do, we need to come up with a plan to preserve the incentive effects of the current tax breaks and loopholes, to minimize the potential impact of the simpler code!”
You are saying the quiet part too loudly, and it means you aren’t saying the loud part loudly enough.
Ted Lieu being civil:
That’s not what I said.
Let’s pretend for a moment that the federal government isn’t exactly functional right now, kind of being led by a lot of incompetent people. ICE has become the new battleground. When someone says let’s abolish ICE, I am going to assume what they don’t mean is split it back up and keep all the same employees and now it’s just separate again. They need not just dissolve it entire, and they can’t just split it and keep the same people…
They need to do it right, controlled, competent, and good people in charge. It will solve nothing if they just kid rid of everything or split it and keep the same people in charge of the parts.
Does Trump think that people who enter the country illegally walk into some office and say, “I’m here illegally, I’d like to stay”?