The point has nothing to do with the agency itself or its many functions of which most people are ignorant. The point is that we do not need the internal immigration patrols. That’s the part people want to abolish. The rest is details.
‘Abolish Ice’ is a hashtag, and it does not represent the actual plan. There’s a bill being introduced in Congress that would lead to the eventual termination of ICE, but not until its functions had been offloaded to the 20-odd departments that performed them before.
The bill has zero chance of passing, of course. But it may after 2020.
That might be what they want but talking point and ask right now is simply abolish ICE.
Much better.
That’s how talking points work. A fully-functional piece of legislation isn’t a talking point. The talking point is the key motivating idea around which the details can be built.
Well… It’s giving the GOP some nice ammunition. They’re claiming the Democrats just want a porous border. I think you’ll find some Democrats aren’t actually open to that, and let’s face it the GOP sells talking points better than the Democrats do. I wish they kept the children in it. It would have been hard to refute that.
Exactly. The Dems are learning that voters can’t handle any policy that can’t be expressed in one simple sentence.
Yeah, it’s a little like crying for universal healthcare. Obviously–and I know that you are well aware of this due to your career, @Nesrie–the situation in the US is complicated and stagnant and not perfect comparable to so the social democracies in western Europe, so there’s a little more to the process than just declaring “Everybody has healthcare now.”
But for the folks on the ground, those simple selling points/talking points/bullet points are more marketing than anything, for lack of a better term. It’s a simple message to stick to and rally people around. SOmetimes that simple message does indeed lead to more substantive discussion, but sometimes, you just need the slogan :)
At some point I hope Democrats learn that there’s nothing they can say or do that won’t give the GOP ammunition. They are an outrage machine. They built an outrage moment out of Barrack Obama wearing a tan suit. They built an outrage moment over him fist bumping his wife.
It’s like blaming Dems for Mitch McConnell going nuclear on Supreme Court judges because Dems did it for other judges first. Anyone pretending McConnell wouldn’t have done it anyway is fooling themselves.
You can’t fight that kind of lie by explaining the details of a nuanced plan. You fight it with a better rallying cry. “You want to let everyone into the country” is easily rebutted by saying, “No, that’s the responsibility of INS and the border patrol, ICE doesn’t do that.”
That’s why Trump backed down and changed the policy. You can still use that as a separate talking point about how willing they were to do it and how easy it was to make so many people miserable, but that point lands harder if you also have a concrete policy to tie it to. Abolish ICE is that policy. It’s a great rallying cry because it shifts the Overton window on the debate. Instead of it being about how badly do we need to oppress people trying to come to country, now we have a range of policy options from “If we miss you at the border, oh well” to “round up everyone who might be here illegally, throw them all out, and let them come back across legally if they can.”
I am not saying ICE shouldn’t disappear as we no it today. It should. I am not saying they need a rallying cry that’s a page long. It should’t be. I just know that the rallying around the kids in cages, the messaging was perfect. The GOP could not, could not refute that. There were no good optics for them there. I just question whether this particular rallying cry was… the best one. It’s what we got. Can’t change that now, but I am not so sure that was the best approach, to lead with that. We’ll see it. That’s it. We’ll see.
I wanted to make sure it wasn’t a JJ Trek fan or something and found this, so I can continue to vote for her.
I am certainly not a socialist, and I don’t really want to be one but I like her. Adding her voice to the mix, see no problem with that. I’m fairly certain we could meet midway on some things or, at the very least, she can keep others on their toes.
I would argue that we do need some agency to police the industries which illegally hire people who are in the country illegally. I do think that is one of ICE’s jobs. They have been in the news here a lot recently for showing up at businesses and asking for their hiring information. Scares the crap out of them too. Personally I think that is where they should concentrate their efforts.
I mean if racists get plenty of representation, no reason socialists shouldn’t get some.
I’m mostly fine with one or two wing nuts in Congress, because those people exist and they should have a voice out there someplace. Everyone freaking out about her while Steve King sits in the back and Seig Heils makes me not want to listen to their bullshit.
I think that’s INS? Or it was at one point. It’s not like we didn’t have immigration raids before 9/11 or anything. We had them all the time.
From wiki:
The agencies that were either moved entirely or merged in part into ICE included the investigative and intelligence resources of the United States Customs Service, the criminal investigative, detention and deportation resources of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Federal Protective Service. The Federal Protective Service was later transferred from ICE to the National Protection and Programs Directorate effective October 28, 2009. In 2003, Asa Hutchinson moved the Federal Air Marshals Service from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to ICE,[7] but Chertoff moved them back to the TSA in 2005.[8]
This is the piece that’s largely in the news.
Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO)
ERO is responsible for enforcing the nation’s immigration laws and ensuring the departure of removable immigrants from the United States.
I am not sure what “piece” does this (not wiki):
Working with Employers
ICE also works with the private sector to educate employers about their responsibilities to hire only authorized workers and how to accurately verify employment eligibility. (Read more about the ICE IMAGE program.)
I received this training years ago, muliple times. Before and after ICE, same person gave the training, same content.
Not sure if this has been posted (or in which thread, if so), but it’s a good general read.
Let the man rest a minute, will ya?
If I were Obama I might start feeling a little like Batman at the beginning of Dark Knight Rises. Why can’t the world save itself for once?
It’s not a great title. The article is actually quite measured, not just a plea for him to come back. It’s just interesting to see what he’s been doing with his time.
I’m with those who feel he’s earned a retirement. 8 years in the toughest job in the world, and then having the electorate piss all over your legacy by voting for a complete asshole who came to political prominence by peddling a racist conspiracy theory about your country of origin? Yeah, fuck 'em in the ear.