2017: Whither Democrats?


#6073

You typoed 1960, man. Wanted to let you know so you could correct it! Very embarrassing error :-)


#6074

Heh :)


#6075

What everyone else already wrote, plus the obligatory, “Forget it, Jake. It’s [Mississippi].”


#6076

(Unfortunately for Wasserman, Stephanie Murphy is prevented by the Constitution from being president. She was born in Vietnam.)


#6077

What about Duckworth?


#6078

Yeah, it would require a lot of legal challenges, looking around, I found this on wikipedia.

In a 2006 John Marshall Law Review article, Paul A. Clark argues that the Fifth Amendment should be read as implicitly repealing the requirement that the U.S. President needs to be a natural-born U.S. citizen. Clark points out that, starting from the 1954 case Bolling v. Sharpe, courts have held that the Fifth Amendment contains an implicit equal protection clause whose scope is identical to the Fourteenth Amendment’s equal protection clause and that federal discrimination against naturalized U.S. citizens (or, more specifically, federal discrimination based on national origin) would be struck down by the courts as being in violation of the Fifth Amendment. Since the requirement that the U.S. President needs to be a natural-born U.S. citizen is a form of discrimination based on national origin, Clark argues that the courts should strike down this requirement.

So there would at least be some sort of legal precedent to make an argument, but it doesn’t sound like there hasn’t been much work done on that route. Interesting that the constitution says the government can’t discriminate against those based on national origin (came up during the travel ban) but also says that only natural born citizens can be president.

I don’t know if you could win that legal argument, but it looks like something that could and should be brought up.

The founders of the country explicitly grandfathered themselves in, and created the clause to protect the country from a European country led take-over of the U.S. (Which pretty much ignores all of the checks and balances we have in place on the Executive branch) but it is what it is nonetheless.

Ted Cruz wasn’t born in the U.S. (and neither was John McCain) but Cruz was born to at least one U.S. Citizen, and McCain was born on a U.S. Base, but it wasn’t actually a US Territory until a year after he was born, so it got a little muddier there.

But I think the simplest explanation of natural-born means not necessarily that you were born in the U.S. but were born as a citizen (A parent was a citizen). And that has been generally accepted, but never tested. And Stephanie Murphy does not qualify for that even.

I can already see the campaign ads mocking her Vietnamese name already.


#6079

I guess the most interesting thing about what Wasserman is suggesting there is that a centrist Democrat with the right resume and ability to grind Trump’s gears could get through the primary season. I’m not sure I buy that, but it’s an interesting idea.


#6080

Born in Thailand, but to a US Citizen (and army vet) father.

But likely wouldn’t be much of a challenge if she were to win the nomination, due to her birth citizenship status. I would expect a lot of far-right garbage about it, but legally probably ok. (But not tested)

I also think that Wasserman is right, and I would add that Asian American would be a nice touch, as that is a massively untapped voting bloc, that could swing heavily blue with the right candidate.


#6081

I suspect he is right in this case. Democrats seem to be more interested in electability and charisma than in fine points of policy.


#6082

Hillary spectacularly failed at doing this. She ground his gears quite well, but didn’t really connect with your typical voters. I think finding a self-made success story from blue collar roots, who is a woman would really grind his gears, and would be able to dodge any of the rich “washington insider” rhetoric thrown at Hillary (even though Hillary’s up-bringing was decidedly middle-class anyway)

I think it really could work though, because the 2018 totals have clearly shown that the suburban vote, and particularly the female suburban vote has swung hard against Trump, and if you put someone that looks and talks like these suburban women voters, any insult thrown at the candidate will feel like an insult thrown at the voter. (AOC has been riding this with the younger voters).

I really liked Hillary Clinton, and her story. I think for 2020 the Democrats can find someone even better.


#6083

Why would this be probably? She’s a natural born US citizen.


#6084

Look, I don’t think anything is certain anymore. Ted Cruz dropped out before this was tested, and you can bet the conservatives are going to fight a lot harder to stop someone not born in the U.S. from getting elected.


#6085

Well public opinion sure but you said legally probably okay. This isn’t really a grey area in the law. It says natural born citizen or citizen, like two separate things. They’re not supposed to the be same which is why they are listed. I get the hesitation based on our shit media and stupid voters, but law side, there is no reason to doubt this.


#6086

You are… uhh skipping a line there.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

The founders left themselves a grandfather clause. But that wouldn’t apply now.

Most scholars agree that the intention was to include anyone that had citizenship from birth, and not just born on U.S. soil. But many people (and I am sure some Trump team members) were starting to look into Ted Cruz’s standing as the primaries narrowed to 2.

You can bet if it is a democrat and a woman, the scrutiny will be much more intense, and who just got 2 more judges on the Supreme Court?


#6087

Ooh, just like me!

I used to wonder if I would be eligible for the presidency but when I became an open atheist it became a moot point.


#6088

She’ll have the votes she needs in January.


#6089

More intense like say Obama, during his election and his entire time in office? The Birther movement certainly began Trump’s ego walk to the Presidency but it led to pretty much nothing in court. The GOP will likely challenge anyone who wins, just like they already have. It’s standard course for that crooked party.


#6090

I think you mean DEMS IN DISARRAY? PELOSI SHORT OF SPEAKER VOTES


#6091

That may be so (since some people want to pretend birthright citizenship doesn’t really exist) but it has been tested. McCain was born in Panama, but his natural born-ness was never in question since he was born of American parents.


#6092

That’s 32 assholes saying no to Pelosi without any alternative. Nobody else is running!