2017: Whither Democrats?

That’s the big thing. The older democrats, both white and black, are holding the Dems back. (don’t discount how conservative the Black Church Dems are- that’s a big problem in the South as well, what they demand turns off the younger crowd)

My problem with Pelosi and Hillary is entirely with their politics, not their gender. I’d have no problem supporting other Democratic women, and have. Even moderate ones like Kay Hagan earned my full support.

My idea of how the Democratic party should look like:

opportunistic stances on social issues- don’t campaign on these issues, but whenever you get a chance to make things better, go for it. That said, Sister Souljah the SJWs whenever you can. It plays well.

Strong emphasis on consumer rights and control of extreme capitalism. People may hate Congress, but they hate their cable company and airlines more. Go after those folks, they’re easy targets, and low-information voters love it.

Strong emphasis on democratic rights and anti-corruption: honestly favors the Dems, and low-information voters love it.

Go for Healthcare and UBI as the long-term goals.

Notice also that Elisabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Tammy Duckworth aren’t getting those charisma criticisms, and that’s despite Tammy Duckworth (who I really like and would vote for quickly) actually having a charisma problem. It’s not because they’re women, it’s because they aren’t popular even among Dems.

Yeah! Get rid of those coloreds and old people and it’s all wins and happiness!

Yes, this is why i specifically added that this is not what i was talking about.

You can not support Pelosi and clinton without being a sexist. You can run against one of them without being a sexist.

Also i think you can criticize charisma as well. It isn’t like people don’t do that with male politicians.

But you can’t do either without being called a sexist anyhow.

The Democratic party is composed of women and persons of color. The issues of paramount importance to the party mainstream are civil rights, voter protections, women’s health protections, and especially healthcare.

None worthy of a bullet point, except maybe in passing.

The old freaking white guys are just as bad.

Is there are strong woman out there on the Democratic side who doesn’t receive charisma complaint? Who is she?

Feinstein? She seems pretty cool.

Was she surveilling you when you wrote that? Blink twice for affirmation.

Diane “We’ll never have single payer in this country” Feinstein? No thanks.

I feel the need to repost this image at full size because it’s hilariously small in your original post.

Thanks arrendek!

You’re arguing against something i’m not saying. Obviously republicans are going to blast most/all democrats and some of that is likely to be sexist.

I can only speak for myself. For me I would say Elizabeth Warren.

My primary objection is that certain members of the Democratic Establishment labeled everyone who didn’t support Clinton or ran against her as sexists in an attempt to discredit them. This same tactic is being used to defend against opponents of Pelosi as well.

It is a common political attack. You take something bad that everyone can agree on and then falsely link it to an opponent.

can you explain what these are supposed to say?

Democrats identifying as Conservative, Moderate, or Liberal by year on the left.
Republicans, same thing, on the right.

So, i.e. polled Democrats self-identifying as liberal went from 29% to 45% from 2000 to 2015.

And there is also a group that thinks attacking woman about her being a woman is not sexism just because she’s a politician. There are ways not to support a politician or oppose an politician without making it about her being a woman. A fair amount of the attacks on Hillary was, in fact, sexism.

We’re in agreement on this, which is why i never said otherwise anywhere.

However it is also true that false claims of sexism were used to attack democrats who did not support Clinton and are right now being used to do the same with people who do not support Pelosi. Bernie Sanders was even accused of being sexist just for running against Clinton. According to these people, it is not possible to oppose a female Democratic politician without being a sexist, unless that female politician is Elizabeth Warren of course.

To be fair, that was just in response to a question about charisma, not whether she’s someone Dems would want as a leader.

FWIW, when I think charisma, I think D&D. The only Congressional leaders who have at least a smidgen would be Paul Ryan and Chuck Schumer, imho. Hmm, let’s have some fun;

Nancy Pelosi

[details=Summary]level 20 bureaucrat
alignment: Lawful Democrat

STR: 5 (originally 15, until she got drained by a shadow)
DEX: 8
CON: 16
INT: 17
WIS: 12
CHA: 7

Special attack: West Coast fundraising[/details]

Paul Ryan

[details=Summary]level 15 bureaucrat
alignment: Neutral Republican

STR: 12
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 12

Special Defense: weather storm[/details]

Mitch McConnell

[details=Summary]level 20 turtle/bureaucrat (multi-classed)
alignment: Chaotic Republican

STR: 14
DEX: 3
CON: 16
INT: 17
WIS: 8
CHA: 3

Special defense: hide in shell - all attacks hit, but don’t harm him[/details]

Chuck Schumer

[details=Summary]level 18 bureaucrat
alignment: Neutral Democrat

STR: 10
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 16
WIS: 14
CHA:12

Special attack: sneak attack for 1 point of damage when ignored[/details]

Kamala Harris, I don’t think Warren gets a lot of charisma complaints, no one complains about Tulsi’s charisma (just her policies, which there is plenty to complain about).

Most of the attacks from the left on Hillary and Pelosi aren’t sexism, they’re policy. I was disgusted by the attempts to label legitimate criticism as sexist- this is one reason I’m opposed to identity politics regardless of where on the spectrum it is.

Identity politics on both sides gave us Trump and the potential end of American democracy.

I think that another part of this is that partisanship, rather than sexism, drives much of the attacks… they simply manifest themselves in a sexist form.

There are numerous REPUBLICAN women who do not endure such attacks from the GOP. This makes me think that those attacks are ultimately just rising up out of partisanship.