2017: Whither Democrats?


#101

Zach sounds like a typical classless self-righteous far-left asshole to me.


#102

Bernie was right there


#103

I’m not on that train yet, but this thread is making me consider buying a ticket.

Bernie Sanders was not going to beat Donald Trump. You know how I know that? Because Bernie Sanders could not win the Demoratic party primary in 2016, and American independents and Republicans in the general election were not looking for a Socialist to lead them.

The only Bernie Sanders “what-if” that’s worth pondering is this: “What if Bernie Sanders reaction to losing any path to victory in the Democratic party primary had been to put his full support behind Hillary Clinton, instead of string his campaign along for a few months while encouraging his supports to morph into Bernie-or-Busters?”

If the Democratic party moves to the hard left they’re going to have a hard time winning in 2020. American elections are about personalities first, and policies second, so it’s not impossible to imagine the right candidate pushing the party left. But to the extent that people (especially in the Rust Belt) are paying attention to policies they’re going to see “socialism” as a huge negative.


#104

In lighter news:

I agree with you about 2020. But Kamala Harris is pretty cool and she just won election to the U.S. Senate. She’s definitley a rising star of the party, and in the grim darkness of the near future of a two-term Trump terror tour I wouldn’t be surprised to see Harris runing for President (or perhaps God Emperor?) in 2024.


#105

I know that’s what most Democrats believe in their heart of hearts. I don’t really want to debate if is reality or not,

But I can tell you that’s not how it is perceived by large chunks of the population and is my old boss and mentor said. “perception is reality”

What they see is this.
Democrats want to help

  • gay people get married.
  • illegal immigrants get drivers license and go to college
  • put cops in jail for doing their job.
  • bring more Muslims into the country
  • blacks and Hispanics cut in line for college
  • abolish religion
  • kill unborn babies
  • let perverts use women’s restrooms
  • make acceptable to mock people in flyover country.
  • outlaw guns
    and finally, Democrats want to punish white males for their crime/privilege of being white and male.

I can also tell you with near certainty, that portraying Hillary as a defender of the little people is laughable for more than 1/2 population.


#106

There’s always time to blame Bernie!

I don’t think the Bernie “dead-enders” are really the cause of Hillary’s loss.

The Bernie camp was right about the problems of the DNC as we now see. Bernie was also a change candidate in a change election…or closer to representing that than Hillary.


#107

It didn’t work for me. I had friends posting stuff on FB about what Clinton supposedly said or did, I’d show them they were wrong and their response was, “Well, maybe she didn’t do or say that, but it sounds like something she would do/say”. How can you combat that kind of thinking?


#108

Newsome? A California liberal from San Francisco is that absolute last guy you want running. You’re totally tone deaf if you think he’s the answer.


#109

This exactly. Yesterday I put a bunch of the folks I had to hide from my facebook feed for sanity back out, and one immediately posted a clearly photoshopped image purporting to be a Bill Clinton tweet.

Me; "Dude, I’m trying here, but you know that’s fake, right?"
Friend: “Maybe, but I bet that’s what he was thinking.”


#110

Same reason I can’t really see Harris. She cut her teeth in San Fran, and wasn’t a big fan of her there.

Biden is 73. He’ll be 77 in the next cycle. I really doubt it. If he won, he’d potentially be president until 85.

This is sort of why, if you go back among the old 2012 threads, I mused if Obama needed to have a sit-down with Biden and ask if he was going to run for 2016. If not, then he probably should ask Biden to step aside so Obama could groom a replacement.

Water under the bridge.


#111

I’ve gone to Facebook about 2 or 3 times since Tuesday night. I’m on the verge of shutting down my account. They wield enormous power and have a massive responsbility, and yet refuse to admit it. Fuck 'em.


#112

Eric Schmidt. He is a Democrat, He grew up in Washington DC. He has done plenty of lobbying for Google while he was Executive Chairmen so he understands how to get things done in Washington.

You lose some of the white working class, but I bet you pick up a lot of the Republican college educated vote.

Plus he is wicked smart and rich.


#113

The Democrats need to go with a former general. That would cause a lot of problems for the Republicans IMO, especially Trump. He’s also be an outsider in many ways which would help.


#114

So the solution to the Republicans winning this election is to be more like the Republicans?

I mean, sure, might work, but eventually, Republicans is all you’ll get.


#115

Funny, I don’t believe I said that anywhere, did I? Who said a general needs to act like a Republican? There are generals who are Democrats.

Trump’s deal is he is the alpha male. But he’s not going to out alpha male a general. In fact, he’s going to look weak and pathetic if he tries. But it’s his only shtick. A military guy insulates you in so many ways from Trump attacks. If you want to win the battle of images, this is one ways to do it.

You want to win, you’re going to have to think outside of the box.


#116

Democrats have been doing that for years. Soft on crime, weak on the military and what happens?
Bill Clinton and the '90’s, and there is nary a Democrat in sight even willing to discuss defense department cuts.

Here’s the lesson from 2016: Republicans don’t care if their guy is unlikable, they in fact don’t care if their guy is Donald fucking Trump, they still vote in the same numbers. Democrats? Our candidate doesn’t give us the feels, so we’re just gonna stay home. Seriously, fuck Democrats.

By the way Strollen, now I know what you mean by a bubble. Clearly large swaths of people just don’t give a shit.


#117

On that theme…


#118

Don’t elect such a fatally flawed candidate in the first place.

You don’t need to get a general, a veteran would do just fine. Tammy Duckworth or even Tulsi Gabbard could out-alpha Donald Trump, Duckworth especially.

I just worry if Duckworth has enough charisma.

The big thing that turns out low-motivation voters is consumers and workers rights , and their pocketbook. That’s why I think Bernie could have won.

Welfare’s an outright loser, but you probably could make a universal income plan work by calling at a work program- make getting the income voluntary but you’re subject to be drafted to help work on civic duty projects (kinda like the CCC in the 30s)


#119

Some people seem really bitter that the Democratic party nominated an actual democrat, and want to use any excuse to attack her.

Hillary wasn’t a great candidate, it wasn’t a great campaign. But there were no other democrats seriously in the race - that’s not on her. As to the campaign, when the entire neutral media is acting as a free ad buy for your opponent running a good campaign isn’t easy. Noone knew how to run against Trump because it hasn’t happened before. All this “in hindsight” BS is pretty sickening.


#120

Because the DNC didn’t want them there. The clowncar approach of the GOP is pretty silly as well, but the Democrats do this shit all the time. The find someone who has “paid their dues” to the party and then nominate them. Al Gore. Kerry. Mondale. Clinton. Everyone else is strongly persuaded to not fuck with the system. Obama did it and that should have been a clue, but they ignored it. Hell Bernie was making a go of it and he wasn’t even in the party.

People on both sides were sick of the establishment. They’d been sick of it for over a decade. Obama got in with Hope and Change. He didn’t deliver, but he mostly tried and was likable. Next election comes up. GOP pushes Trump who offers… get this: Hope and Change. Bernie rises offering… you guessed it: Hope and Change. Very different tones and methods, but the same message. Bernie loses, it gets leaked that the party didn’t want him to win. Trump wins and everyone knows the party didn’t want him to win.

So you’re sick of the establishment. There are two options. The Living Embodiment of the Establishment and man who everyone in Washington hates. It should have been obvious who was going to win, but we all thought that Trump horrificness would save us from him. It didn’t, people were too far gone at that point. They were content just telling everyone to go fuck themselves and praying it all worked out.