2017: Whither Democrats?

The psychotic right is a group that’s going to have to be dealt with for a generation, and I have no pity for them. I see them as that much of a threat.

How about that unity?www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/tom-perez-dnc-shake-up/amp

I’m sure it will work out this time though. It isn’t like anyone can lose to Trump, right?

Judging by the reaction of one of the “ousted” dudes I actually get the impression that it wasn’t as big a deal as the article makes it out to be.

That being said I’m done voting Democrat if they’re back to business as usual.

Then you’ll be voting for the alternative, which is Trump brand insanity.

The only way to get better folks into the Dems is to have an outsider win. Also we haven’t seen if Perez is as bad as DWS.

Nope, I just won’t be voting or voting 3rd party.

“But blah blah blah a vote for something is a vote FOR something else”

No… just don’t.

I’m sure protest voting will be fine. What’s the worst that could even happen? I mean, at least you aren’t in a swing state.

Isn’t this pretty much the definition of “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”?

“I mean sure, I agree with 95% of what they stand for, but that 5%! If I can’t get 100%, I would prefer 0%. MAGA.”

Call it whatever you want. I’ve just decided to refuse to vote for a party that has it’s head so far up it’s own ass that it can’t figure out which direction to go.

The bathwater is just that gross. Who needs babies anyway?

So you’re supporting the alternative.

Or, minimally, you’re saying it’s equally fine with you to have things controlled by Trump and the current incarnation of the GOP.

It really doesn’t matter if you want to pretend it isn’t the case. It is. That’s the choice you are making.

Sometimes it’s just about sending a message, I guess.

2017 is the result of sending that message.

I mean, holy fuck, the reason why things are as they are today, is directly the result of people doing what Arrendek is suggesting.

It’s not some abstract academic exercise at this point. We’re living with the repercussions of those actions.

This is the same argument as always.

The democrats have a monopoly on being sane, so they can spit in your face and still expect your vote. The lack of a second viable party is nearly as dangerous to our democracy as Trump.

That’s the choice you say he’s making, with your reductivr argument.

As a voter, he is not responsible for how other people vote, he is only responsible for how he votes. There is no ethical or logical argument that he is somehow obligated to counter other voters preferences -regardless of his preference- or else he for no apparent reason becomes culpable for those votes.

There simply isnt.

A voter is only responsible for their vote.

You can make a moral argument otherwise, but that’s simply your morals butting up against his ethics and isnt the sort of “absolute truth” you’re pretending it is!

Abstention is an ethical position that is undervalued in a polarised society, precisely because both sides are actively agitating for society to become even more polarised.

Ultimately, people like you are more responsible for people like Trump because you do your utmost to erode any sort of middle ground. The middle ground is a natural bulwark against despots and I don’t think its particularly controversial to state that in pretty much every thread around politics or social issues, you set the middle ground on fire just so you can piss on it and trample on the ashes.

Enjoy being the problem!

This is totally true, and one of the reasons why I lament the conservative wing going so nutso.

But the fact remains that the monopoly exists. While it sucks that the GOP is now so awful that the dems are the reasonable choice virtually regardless of what they do, that is in fact the state of affairs now.

We are forced to choose between these two options. We do not have the luxury of some third imagined option.

Perhaps the thing to do is get involved as early as possible in the nomination process and in local/state elections in order to push the candidates that take the party where you would like it to go.

It turns out that democracy is hard and if you just wait for the Final Two to be anointed, there’s not a whole lot of choice left.

Structurally the system doesn’t help much. I live in California where our vote in the primary hardly seems to matter.

Also, who cares about state legislator elections? Yet the Repubs are taking them one by one.

When it finally gets to the moment of ‘lesser of two evils,’ I’d still vote the lesser, though it’s safe to say that when the option becomes ‘Nuke only 1 country’ vs. ‘Nuke 2 countries’ something went sour along the way.

Of course what appears to irritate Arrendek is less the Dems’ lack of ideological purity (IMO they actually seem pretty “pure” these days, at least in their rhetoric) than their incompetence in winning elections. This in turn creates a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If a party loses votes because they don’t seem like they can win, then they… won’t win. Politics is funny.

I’ll always give the Repubs this: they rally around their nominee. Even when he’s completely fucking awful. I’m not sure it’s a compliment, but I have to give it to them.

( Edit: This first bit is in reply to kedaha)
If living in a vacuum, sure this makes sense.
But when you live in a society individual choices are compounded by other individual choices.
That’s reality, smugness notwithstanding.

The problem with people who “refuse to vote for Democrats because blah blah blah” is they also refuse to do the work required to help elect progressive candidates at local, state and national levels. Yes, that is going to fail more often than not in the beginning, but taking your ball home and refusing to play is the ultimate cop out.

Granted our two party system is the suck but that also requires work supporting candidates willing to change the status quo (which to be frank is a multi-generational battle.)


Or what Gordon just wrote! Ha.

In 2016, the choice on every presidential ballot was between a responsible politician and one of several Putin shills dedicated to the destruction of American democracy. It sucks that those were the choices, but that’s what they were. As a voter, you have a responsibility to know which you are choosing.

I think you’re forgetting about her emails, though. It’s like you don’t understand the problem.