This is the same mentality that had imbeciles at the DNC in 2016 protesting because they thought Bernie was somehow going to win the nomination, despite having literally millions of fewer votes and losing the delegate count.
There seems to be a real lack of tactical understanding among many folks. I’m glad that Schumer is smarter than that.
You guys ain’t gonna win until you start taking back seats in the government. That needs to be the goal, not throwing tantrums about how the Democrats caved, and how voting doesn’t matter. The reason things are the way they are, is because voting matters a LOT.
@Telefrog the “coming to their senses” is clearly a republican talking point, from the WH release on down. It’s insulting and pisses me off. The “spineless” stuff is coming from the left, but I agree with @HumanTon here.
To give the Dems their due, they have “won” an awful lot over the past year or so… mostly because the GOP is so horribly bad a governing.
The Obamacare repeal/replace saga is the biggest one, but getting a Special Prosecutor appointed, having many of the travel bans slapped down by the courts, preventing many of Trump’s more odious appointees from taking office (or them resigning in disgrace), and even Trump’s inability (so far) to fund his ridiculous wall could easily be viewed as victories.
And sure, there are plenty of things that have happened that the Dems didn’t want to happen, like the Tax thing, or pulling out of the Paris Treaty, but the general public could be forgiven for thinking that the Democrats have done a pretty bang-up job of stopping Trump’s agenda over the last year… and that (semi-false) perception might color how those folks see the current situation.
Eh, the original CR didn’t have CHIP in it, it was added to peel off some moderate Democrats when the shutdown talk started getting serious. So it was absolutely a concession… albeit a largely pain-free one from the GOP standpoint. They had basically been holding CHIP in reserve for just such an occasion.
Yes, but the GOP has been holding CHIP hostage for immigration and ACA changes for most of last year. The dems can claim victory that they didn’t cave in to those demands and got 6 years. Doesn’t really matter that the GOP proposed what got passed in the CR, what matters is that the dems got CHIP without giving anything up for it. That’s a win for the dems in the current landscape.
My bad. I thought the bill started with that in it. If the Dems got the GOP to add it then they did win something with the shutdown. However by being prepared to add it the GOP was able to use the illegals over kids argument.
How was the GOP ready for this? Did they bring in a ringer for this?
re: the whole back-and-forth, I think the biggest issue I have is the impression both CHIP and DACA would have likely passed one way or another, in some form. If that’s true, it’s primarily been a PR battle which the Democrats lost.
You did have GOP senators yesterday saying how everyone favored both CHIP and DACA in some form. I did see one say something to the effect that there is no guarantee the GOP in the house will see it the same way.
Yes obviously the framing comes from a bunch of GOP guidance. My point is that it worked. The Dems got very little positive press for this. You have to dig deep to get to the CHIP deal, and none of the main news channels were talking about that this morning.
I just wanted to apologize to anyone who I offended in here yesterday. I was trying to make the larger point that I thought this was a bad issue for the Dems to dig their heels in and ended up coming off as attacking illegal immigrants in general playing a bit of devil’s advocate trying to make people see the other side a bit. I stand by my points but I could have framed the argument better.
Anyway, if this point is important to Dems they now have three weeks to make a good argument. They are pretty disorganized from an outsider’s perspective so I still think a change in tactics is in order but wanted to say sorry if my tone offended.
No what would happen is they’d grab babies as fast as they could and it would just so happen that the first baby out was a DACA baby (we know this because Cernovich and co doxxed the baby) and FOx starts running articles about Democrats saving illegal babies while American babies burn and CNN and the NYT run stories about “Should the Democrats have saved illegal babies?” and everyone hates the Democrats for saving babies.
Honestly … and I hate to say it I really do… but Dems are doing the right thing. They pushed as much as they could knowing they had zero leverage. I hate it as well as Trump has so far lost time after time so it would have been nice to keep that track record going. But the Dems cant win here. They got nothing. Honestly I think they need to take this one on the chin and focus on November, just wait for the next Trump self inflicted loss, they come every week or so. For the dreamers I think the unpleasant poltics is you hae to let Republicans show themselves to be the scumbags they are and then use it in November against them. Again I hate it but I think its the only way.
I’ve decided it’s time to make a bill that says if the government shuts down every sitting Congress critter is fired and we hold an election for new ones.
