2022 also has plenty of WTF?!?!? moments.

Sure. And with a system that strives for 4% unemployment — that calls that full employment — having a job sometimes counts for a lot.

Has anything changed? This is how it was at every company I worked for from 1986 though 2015.

I could swear that folks were citing statistics showing that job tenures were down over time and job changing was up.

I would assume the move to 401k retirement plans instead of employer pension plans had some effect.

It’s hard to see much evidence of reduction in tenure in these numbers, though they only go back to 2010.

My impression is that what tends to happen is:

Employee asks for more money (usually because new-hires are getting it).
Company says no, no room in the budget for it.
Employee finds new job.
Employee quits working at company and starts new job.
Old company comes back to them after a few weeks/months and offers them more money now that they’ve already left.
(Ex-)Employee tells company to go fuck themselves.

@abrandt If you look at that in the long view, pension plans were a form of deferred compensation and the move to 401Ks (in the very big picture) is a reduction of total compensation paid to employees. So in the older days, companies were paying higher total compensation (at least if you include commitments to future pay) to increase length of employee tenure, as a practical matter.

As to the stats, 2010 is not far enough back - I wonder what the stats show over the last 50 to 60 years? My sense is that a lot of the changes occurred in the 80s and 90s.

Agree that 2010 is not far enough back, but I don’t see a better dataset handy.

I do see a lot of articles and editorials misreading that data. Boomers may have longer job tenure because they’re old, not necessarily because they’re inclined to stick. They can’t leverage their skills to bounce to better jobs, or they don’t have to.

My last job was my longest tenure, not because I was a boomer, but because the returns for jumping were substantially diminished for a fifty-something CIO with a career in a niche industry. I was being paid a ton, the work was work I knew, I was well set for retirement, and my ambition was accordingly curtailed. Not so when I was younger. It’s more about age than about generations.

Hmm, this throws a lot of cold water on the idea that people jump jobs substantially more than they used to, going back a long time.

Over the past 35 years, the median tenure of all wage and salary workers ages 25 or older has stayed at approximately five years.
• This overall trend masks a small but significant decrease in median tenure among men (which had been increasing until declines in 2016 and 2018) and an offsetting increase in median tenure among women.
• The fact that the gender-distinct trends have generally moved in opposite directions has led to overall constancy in the tenure statistics. However, the median tenures by gender have been moving together in recent years.
• The distribution of tenure levels among workers ages 20 or older had been moving toward longer tenures until the most recent years, where shorter tenures have gained share.

Ah, this might explain the memory/perception I have that things used to be different. Men were definitely given more voice during my youth and so that side of things almost certainly got more attention in the media that reached me. The idea that in earlier decades, women worked a lot of thankless dead end jobs without security or opportunity is almost certainly true, but it wasn’t heavily publicized at the time.

So in the big picture things haven’t really changed that much. However, WHO the things happen to has changed.

A good example of how the economy is actually far more complex than simplistic input/output models.

If there was a significant change, I agree with @abrandt that it is probably tied to the end of corporate pension plans, and add that it also is probably tied to the effort to destroy unions. So I’m guessing job tenure began trending down in the 70s and into the 80s.

The big change I think happened at the end of the seventies, probably starting in the late sixties even. The end of the “magic economy” of the post-war period under the onslaught of energy prices, rapid globalization of production, labor, and consumption markets, and all that, plus the vast expansion of the labor pool through race and gender breakthroughs I think put paid to the old “man in the gray flannel suit” sort of American salaryman ideal. It’s a theory at least!

Yeah if you look at the idea of “whose story” becomes the zeitgeist you can see how that 50s ideal became a dominant image even as it was waning in reality.

It happened at both ends. Corporate pensions drove long tenure for salarymen and union pensions drove long tenure for line workers. So we killed both.

This defense of the new Forward party is spectacularly vacuous.

This take sums it up:

This 100%. My current job is at a facility with a hazy expiration date sometime… in the next decade? I’m a 45 year old engineer. I worry that if my job disappears in 10 years it’s going to be tough looking for work as a 55 year old engineer, particularly at my current salary and seniority. I have very little desire to leave my current position; I’ve been here 13 years. I’m senior enough that I manage my boss more than the other way around, and I have enough relationships with other senior staff that I’m very effective at managing staff and work without having to actually be a manager. My work hours are light (rarely more than 40 hours/week) and flexible. I have 5 weeks of vacation per year. And my salary is higher than median for my experience and position and I get promotions and raises regularly. Also because of the nature of our work we have small teams working on large, complicated systems. We try to maintain skill overlap, but inevitably someone on the small team will have specialized expertise that no one else has. I’m the only electrical engineer in my department, so that someone is often me, which makes me difficult to replace.

Criticizing@Fwd_Party for not having policy solutions is like criticizing Spotify for not releasing their own music. Spotify is the tool to distribute music. We’re the tool to facilitate dialogue & consensus.

Lol, but if Spotify said “We don’t have any music; we’re a platform that facilitates dialogue & consensus about music”, no one would be a subscriber.

Some days I wonder if my life has any lasting meaning. But I take comfort when I know that after I die, my ex-spouse, ex-president, cheating, dirtbag will bury my body on his golf course, so that he can walk over my grave on his way to putt, and my corpse will provide him a perpetual tax break. Life (and death) is beautiful.

Ivana Hrynkiw, a reporter and managing producer with AL.com, said she was told by Alabama Department of Corrections Public Information Officer Kelly Betts after she arrived at the media center at William C. Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore that her skirt was too short.

“I have worn this skirt to prior executions without incident, to work, professional events and more and I believe it is more than appropriate. At 5′10″ with my heels on, I am a tall and long-legged person,” she said on Twitter. Hrynkiw, an award-winning journalist, has attended and witnessed seven executions.

Hrynkiw said she tried to lower her skirt at the hip in an attempt to comply with Betts, but that didn’t satisfy the prison official. In order to witness the execution for reporting purposes, she had to borrow a pair of Columbia PFG fisherman’s waders from a local television photographer. The fishing gear was deemed appropriate attire.

“I put on the man’s pants and attached the suspenders underneath my shirt to stay up,” she said.

Following the change of clothes, Hrynkiw was told her open-toed heels also violated policy. She was told to put on closed-toe shoes, and put on tennis shoes she had in her car.

The prison spokesperson said the skirt violated the prison’s dress length policy, as well as her open-toed shoes, Hrynkiw said.

Good thing Alabama Department of Corrections Public Information Officer Kelly Betts is on duty, or people would see toes and an extra inch of thigh while a human being is getting killed.


Reminds me of something Kurtz said in Apocalypse Now:

“We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won’t allow them to write “fuck” on their airplanes because it’s obscene."

Man, this fucking thread.

Full story here: