8Mile

Whew! Thank goodness we put that important issue to bed. :wink:

Heh, Andrew, the Christian groups did a lot of protesting Will and Grace - organized advertiser boycotts, etc. I just protested W&G when it started getting lazy with its writing and stopped being as funny as it was. :wink:

Gay groups did some protesting of the first Eminem album, but I also remember in the 2000 - 2001 time frame them backing down big time. The only reason that I remember it well is that a buddy of mine from Texas (who happens to be gay - the friend, not Texas) being so dissapointed and him telling me that he thought the groups were sell-outs. He also said he thought it was funny/sad listening to the Hollywood/Music Stars trying to justify why it was “artistic” for Eminem to gay-bash (and it goes beyond saying faggot - some is pretty explicit bashing.)

Hey, it’s no biggie to me one way or another. I don’t understand why Mathers has been declared the next big thing in music, nor why people think the guy is so talented (and believe it or not, there’s some Rap that I think is pretty clever and innovative), but I’m certainly not the target market for his stuff.

Yeah, I only watched a few episodes too.

Yeah, I felt that way too. I’ve never liked that stuff in his music and I’ll defend him only by saying I think it’s motivated much more by ignorance (and, er, keeping it real - the words on the street) than an actual hate agenda. He’s bewildered when people confront him on it because, hey, he actually ain’t that worldly. I don’t buy Adam’s assertion that it’s an act. I think it’s an act that’s used to explain the stuff he writes from deep inside. Eminem is pretty damn guileless, from what I’ve seen. The fact is Eminem is a fantastic rapper. His intonation, style, and ever writing are well above most of the rap scene. Up there with Dre, Snoop, and (imo) the best ever, Chuck D. Makes it harder to dismiss him outright, which is what would have happened if some chump had begun spouting offensive lyrics (unless he went to trial for it in Florida of course).

Critics can’t ignore that, but I agree they began giving him a pass way too early and that Elton John thing was just weird and embarrassing (though that could be cited as a reason why the gay groups have backed off him - Eminem actually agreeing to do that, something the rap scene did not like, earned him some points on the tolerance meter I guess).

Funny, my wife loathes Eminem for the woman bashing as much as the gay bashing and at the end of the trailer for 8-mile I looked over at her, read her expression and said: “You’re mad because that looks like a good movie, aren’t you?” She sullenly said: “yes”

That’s where Emimen puts you. Hate him for some of the lyrics but if you appreciate rap, well… man! That boy is good!

My reaction to Eminem went through a 3 part evolution.

Part 1) Didn’t really pay attention to the lyrics. His rythm, style, beat, and scheme combined to make some very enjoyable music. I am by no means a rap fan, but his music grabbed me.

Part 2) After listening enough, I started paying more attention to the lyrics. Some pretty offensive stuff in there, espcially when quoted out of context. Started reading about how his mother was suing in for what he said about her, how he was leaving his wife and taking custody of his daughter. I started thinking he was a real ass and didn’t deserve a lick of respect.

Part 3) Started reading about his past. How his mother really was, what his relationship with his wife was like, and how he grew up. Also started reading up on some of the less offensive lyrics that weren’t hilited by some “rights” group and saw that, on the whole, it wasn’t this offensive crap fest that it was being made out to be. Combine that with the fact that he makes it quite clear in several songs that he is like Rush Limbaugh (doesn’t always believe what he says, but says what gets the most reaction), and suddenly I’m able to listen again without feeling like I’m supporting some hate monger.

So now I can just sit back and listen to his music. I can even sing along with it without feeling guilty. And when he defames his exwife or spouts off an ignorant homophobic lyric, it doesn’t effect me. His music doesn’t make me hate gays, just like Cop Killer didn’t make me want to shoot an officer nor did Don’t Stand So Close To Me make me want to promote pedophilia.

Since you brought up the issue of taking what’s rapped about literally here’s my take on that.

Music, just like videogames, is not the sole factor in making someone go shoot up a school or go on sniping sprees. That’s the bottom line in my eyes.

Perhaps it was a small factor but something was without doubt wrong with the person before they played that videogame or listened to those hateful lyrics.

Eminem himself says it best – “Believe me, there’ll be just as many muthafuckin’ murderers and heroin users without Marlilyn’s music.”

Chuck D, who I agree is the best rapper of all time, after Arizona voted down MLK day in their state did a whole song and video about murdering the governor.

It is all to bring attention to issues people feel stongly about. Chuck himself says he exaggerates to elicit responses on both sides of a debate. Positive or negative it is getting the word out.

Eminem is good. I think the fact that he is good and white is contributing greatly to his success. Sure whites have always been large purchasers of rap, but there has not been a decent white rapper* for caucasians to get behind in years. Everlast is about the most skilled white rapper IMO, but he has diverged from traditional rapping and melds a lot more bluesy stuff that would never sell Eminem type numbers. Great production by the mucho talented Dr. Dre certainly does not hurt. I would argue that the guys from 3rd Bass were at least as good as Eminem. (MC Serch and Prime Minister Pete Nice)

I am a huge rap fan who does not like the turns the genre has taken since the ‘Bling Bling’ rappers have taken. Eminem seems like something I should be able to latch onto, but I have always been about the voices in rap music and Marshall’s voice tends to grate on me at times (too high pitched or something). I listen to his stuff now and again and do enjoy much of it, but all of this attention he is getting is because he is moving a lot of units, he is white, and used that to angle for a movie role where he, basically, plays himself.

This generation’s Elvis I have heard. Yikes! Of all the crazy media hype I have seen, that is the most egregious.

[size=2]*The Beastie Boys do not count because they have surpassed greatness amny, many moons ago and are doing completely different things within the genre than Eminem is.[/size]

Nice little overview of white rap there Ty.
3rd Bass, yes, definitely. I never liked Everlast, but admit he beats Vanilla Ice, House of Pain, and Snow (a licky boom boom down).

House of Pain do get some credit for Jump Around, specifically for this line: Tried to play me as if my name was Sega. But lose all that credit for having a single hit based on a jumping trend begun by Kriss Kross.

ANd yes, since Paul’s Boutique, the Beasties have been on their own. When I play Godzilla DAMM, I think Intergalactic Planetary.

I actually like Eminem when he’s not trying to be an attention grabbing, controversial punk. For example, the “main” song from the movie (Lose Yourself?), I like. I like the emotion conveyed, I like the rhythm (though at times he intentionally jarrs things, and it bothers me).

But songs like “Without Me” and whatever the Real Slim Shady one is called, ugh.

As for the gay rights groups and Eminem, the protests more or less dried up after he performed with Elton John and got the EJ seal of approval.

Everlast actually was from House of Pain along with Danny Boy and DJ Lethal who joined up with Limp Bizkit once they signed with a record label. ‘Jump Around’ was released before the Mac Daddy and Daddy Mac from Kriss Kross donned their backwards pants and did their single, “Jump”. Nice try though. :wink:

Vanilla Ice; I purchased any decent rap tape that came out back then and ripping off ‘Under Pressure’ and rapping to it was good at the time. I have to admit to purchasing his sophomore effort and it was horriblw. Both were summarily disposed of.

Snow; Bought it. Got tired of it. Flash in the pan. Although he is Canadian, I believe, and released an album last year with more singing on it. Those crazee Canadians.

Paul’s Boutique best rap album of all time.

Sorry for hijacking of the thread, but now the Eminem debate can proceed with a little background knowledge. :)

You are so awesome.

Paul’s Boutique best rap album of all time.

To this day, I am still encountering samples from Paul’s Boutique in the original songs I never heard of. I’ll just be driving along, doing whatever, and some random song will come on the radio… and I’m like, damn, that was in Paul’s Boutique!

Example. Just last week I heard the song containing that “…right up to your face and DIS you!” sample. At this rate, I figure on my deathbed, I’ll hear the final sample.

I do that, too. Some are pretty obscure. Anything from classic rap artists, to70’s rock riffs, and 60’s R&B beats. Creative sampling like that has gone the way of the do-do I am afraid.

Said sample is from KRS-One of Boogie Down Productions. I have the cassette somewhere and I would give you the song title, but it escapes me. ‘Nervous’ maybe?

The greatness of Paul’s Boutique is almost entirely due to the Dust Brothers. The Beastie Boys even admit as much in the liner notes to the Sounds of Science box. Most of the tracks were done as instrumentals, and the Beastie Boys heard them through a friend and begged the Dust Bros. to let them rap over it.

If you ever get a chance, try and find the original version of Jimmy James, which was made up of mostly Hendrix samples. They couldn’t clear them, so they had to redo the whole music track.

Paul’s Boutique is a great album, but it’s certainly not the best hip-hop record ever. Especially when measured against It Takes a Nation of Millions…, The Low End Theory, or dozens of other records that were just as good and even more influential.

Creative sampling like that has gone the way of the do-do I am afraid.

No, it just costs money now. Hard to imagine, but that was pre-licensing. It’s unlikely we’ll ever see an album with that kind of sampling breadth and depth again.

Paul’s Boutique is a great album, but it’s certainly not the best hip-hop record ever. Especially when measured against It Takes a Nation of Millions…, The Low End Theory, or dozens of other records that were just as good and even more influential.

What is it with the white people and the hip hop music?

Yeesh! Why did you have to go and say influential? The Beastie Boys have probably influenced more rockers or nu Metal bands than any Hip-hop folks.

I just think as far as flowing and decent lyrics, good beats, and even their musicianship which started to eek out, Paul’s Boutique is great. I will step back from my best ever assertion. However, any time I do not know what I am in the mood for as far as rap goes, I can always pop it in and be perfectly happy. I am not sure I can say that when considering the other greats. :)

God I’m a fogey. Last rap song I liked was Blondie’s “Rapture.”

Kids today. Blue Oyster Cult, Pink Floyd, ELO, New Order, The Cure… Now THAT was music.

Where’d I put my ear horn?

…and with the naming of someone’s favorite bands in a music-related discussion, we have now reached the conclusion of this thread. Please turn off the lights on your way out. I’ll see you all in the “Post a Picture of Your Room!” thread.

…and with the naming of someone’s favorite bands in a music-related discussion, we have now reached the conclusion of this thread. Please turn off the lights on your way out. I’ll see you all in the “Post a Picture of Your Room!” thread.[/quote]

You god damn fucktard, the conclusion of a thread is only, and I do mean -only-, reached when someone compares the current topic to that of Hitler and the holocaust. God damn, kids today, wouldn’t know how-to talk on a message board if Derek Smart fucked them in the ass and used their mind as a cockwipe.

God damn, kids today, wouldn’t know how-to talk on a message board if Derek Smart fucked them in the ass and used their mind as a cockwipe.

Just the way Hitler used to back when he was running the holocaust!

The End

Of all the responses that I could possibly post, I think I’ll just go with:

Wow.