Well, that change is very silly. Previous games already had usable skills for units, also in CoH. They just mapped them to QWER in an universal way, instead of being random keys for each unit. It’s something I always hated.
I’m going to guess that everyone will find some reason to be annoyed by this game. RTS is such a weird space, and DoW has already re-invented itself once, that there’s no way to make everyone happy anymore.
If anything I am gonna really miss the cover system, it is what made Relic RTS games special to me.
It’s not the QWER I’m worried about. It’s the increased emphasis on micro and cooldowns, on top of the removal of cover (it was bad enough what they did to it in DoW 2).
That’s where I am too. I didn’t have too high of expectations to begin with since I haven’t been very impressed with their last two outings (DOW2 and COH2), but the removal of cover and making units more disposable/fragile still came as a surprise. This is likely unfair because I’m basing this only off of what a preview said, but my initial reaction was “I don’t need another RTS more like Starcraft or C&C”. I’m not saying that’s where they’re going, but it was my reaction.
I agree that the cover system is something that made Relic games stand out from others in the genre. I can’t help but worry the game is going to suffer for the lack of it, but I’ll keep an open mind (just not an open wallet at release).
It just sounds more and more like they forgot what the S in RTS is supposed to mean.
But they also included new map mechanics, such as shielded locations and what I think are stealth locations. So I’m not as bummed about the removal of cover. And as a fan of Heroes of the Storm, I’m okay with this new direction, as long as it’s not more of a MOBA than a RTS.
So just hide your Terminator squad in the bushes? :)
Oh, I can agree with that.
In fact I lost interest in the game time ago. For me the way to advance the genre was shown by Company of Heroes: cover, destructability, suppression, flanking that mattered, soldiers with AI who would move around reacting to the battle instead of being still while their hp bars depleted, emphasis on combined arms, use of buildings, possibility of cutting off income by attacking key territories, the retreat system, the very useful strategic view…
After playing it, now playing a traditional RTS seems a step back. They should have built upon that model.
Sadly, that’s a complaint that is applicable to 98% of RTS games, in my opinion.
Probably a fair statement.
It sounds a bit like a micro nightmare…
They tried. Did you play Company of Heroes 2?
The good news in all this is that the original Company of Heroes is as good as it ever was. Now there’s a game that holds up.
-Tom
I watched a fair bit of play on the last beta test weekend. RTS as a genre is on life support unless you are Blizzard. DoW itself had a schizophrenic break between its first two outings. It is a near impossible order at this point to please folks as everyone seems to point to different parts as “essential” to the title. DoW1 is in my all time favorites list. I enjoyed DoW2 a fair bit. So with that all in mind:
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The cover system has been condensed from bits of terrain with colored dots or icons to map spots that are captured and defended. They are invulnerable to ranged, but vulnerable to melee. It is sort of a hybrid of DoW2 bunkers and DoW1 craters.
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There is a LOT of loose talk about MOBA vs RTS. DoW3 is an RTS in the usual play, units, and base building. Very DoW1 like over the RTT of its DoW2 sequel. The map (or the only game mode yet revealed) however works like a MOBA map in that you push lanes towards a tower that needs to be destroyed before the “core” of the base can be attacked. Resource points are in lane like the previous games. This tends to create a MOBA pacing of lane push-a-war and wipe/punish rather than the traditional RTS pacing of scout/rush/repeat until GG.
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The heroes (“elites”) are unlocked via a third resource obtained by map control points. Once a hero is unlocked, it is bound to a timer when killed. They are more like super doctrine units of CoH than MOBA heroes. They also have progressive costs, so a player needs to weigh if they want to save up for an early tier 2/3 elite, or just go with their first one ASAP.
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Non-elite units do seem rather fragile to the many AoE attacks in the game. I’d like to see survivabiliy bumped up in this next beta test.
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The game is very bright artistically and loose on lore. It’s not your usually dark gritty future.
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The game sports a higher than usual armor and anti-armor focus. It reminds me of certain patches of the DoW franchise that really emphasized that some units are better against infantry others excel against heavy units or vehicles.
7). The maps do have “stealth” points like MOBA maps.
8). There is base building for units along with power nodes and listening post upgrades just like DoW1.
- There is a phased escalation status from the CoH side of things.
10). Gone are the near invulnerable retreats of DoW2 (CoH).
In general, I was mixed when I first saw it. After some time, the pacing and changes grew on me. The game does seem to be trying to split the middle on nearly everything from the series’ roots to modern commercial successes. I think this will give everyone fodder to hate something in DoW3. I think if they bump general unit survivabiliy, then I am pretty onboard with the changes. However, it took a lot of watching and debating to land at that stance. Open mind probably needs to be listed in system requirements for this one. :)
There’s part of me that’s really curious about the gameplay being offered. There’s another part of me that was super-disappointed with CoH2 and understands the trajectory of Relic’s RTS installments is growing farther from my preferred RTS gameplay with every game.
I watched recent tournament casts of DoW 2 and it’s still pretty awesome. Graphically it’s so attractive they ripped/sold/outsourced the unit graphics and made a twin stick shooter out of it a few years ago (Warhammer: Kill Team), which was fun for a couple hours on PS3. It actually might have been just a bit more fun than Helldivers. DoW 2 makes a great case for voice actors getting residuals, imo, because that game is carried by their vocal performances. You never thought RTS unit responses might be considered art until you heard the growl of the Chaos Sorcerer or the Human Commissar barking orders.
Then i saw videos of DoW 3. It not only looks worse than DoW 2 but it’s the bastard child of DoW 1 and a MOBA. It’s unit spam and base building, where the units you built are the equivalent of MOBA creeps. The whole point of MOBAs was to get rid of base building and trash units so that you could focus on your hero powers and micro. It’s as if they reverse engineered the problem in their misapprehension of the solution.
Is it a douchey thing to link to your own Tweet?
-Tom
Man, Relic is copying everything from Blizzard these days, it seems like.
This forum needs a dislike button.
This is a crap trailer, lets show almost nothing of the game in tiny shards.