Yeah, no kidding. I’m steering well clear.

I can’t stop trolling. Help me!

Let’s get this thread back on track:

And Jim Darkmagic, of the New Hampshire Darkmagics, was born.

I was with her right up until there was a shirt called ‘Dickwolves Survivor’s Guild’. So… it’s a shirt that is parodying something you are very offended by? I thought the argument was that PA wasn’t taking rape serious when they made the joke in the first place?

What’s funny is the strip was 5 years before that. But you can hear almost the exact same disdain in Tycho’s voice at the start of the very first D&D podcast.

Does it bother you to know that you utterly wasted several years of your life on a mostly worthless degree?

Aaron actually makes a counter-critique – the joke doesn’t work unless we agree rape is terrible – but I think they’re exploiting the fact that this particular society thinks rape is terrible. If Gabe and Tycho thought it was really terrible, they wouldn’t have made this comic.

Care to poison the well some more?

And I’m not sure validity comes into play – you can claim they got upset for the wrong reasons, but unless you’re 100% sure you’re right, you can’t dismiss the resulting, genuine offense.

Of course you can, since I and everyone else, have an utter, inalienable right to offend anybody I feel like. This is no different than feeling absolutely no remorse over the offense that the delusional take when you throw out their magic crackers instead of eating them.

It marks them as socially privileged straight, white, geek, males.

This is an ad hominem attack. Their “privilege” is utterly irrelevant in determining whether something they say is correct.

They’ve made a good living catering to that audience, and most of the time you don’t even have to check every box: you just have to be a geek. “The Sixth Slave,” though, is an example of those deeply exclusive strips where they put the shingle out on their boy’s clubhouse: no feminists, no gays, no rape victims, etc.

Good riddance to the radical feminists. They shouldn’t be welcome anywhere since they espouse inherently sexist beliefs. Or are you going to tell me that I’m required to have respect for misandrists now? Once again, you don’t have the right to demand that people avoid offending you.

Oh, and like I’ll mention later, try treating rape survivors as individuals and people instead of as a monolithic block. I know that it’s hard for a second wave feminist to treat women as equals, but try to do it just this once.

Apparently they did not anticipate that this comic would be offensive. Gabe writes, “There is no way we can know what each and every person who reads the comic has decided to find offensive.” I would think it’d be pretty easy to write this comic, look at it, and realize, “Oh, right, anybody who’s been raped would of course find this offensive."

Would you care to do infantilize rape survivors some more by continuing to outline what they do and do not find acceptable? Care to tell them exactly how they should behave? Are you going to treat them as individuals, or is that possible in your misogynistic world view?

You do realize you torpedoed any serious read of your post with this first statement, right?

Yeah, I read that line and immediately started skimming because I knew there wasn’t much of value coming up.

I wasn’t particularly offended at the original comic, but I think they handled the followup pretty poorly, only backing down on the Dickwolf shirt when people started mentioning they would cancel their PAX appearances.

It does just kinda seem the norm for the games industry as a boy’s club.

By the way, regarding the Dickwolves controversy, I think the best post on this came from (of all places) a GAF user:

My opinion of this whole situation aside, the Team Rape stuff going on in Twitter, especially with the people harassing rape victims and demanding proof that they were ever raped, is fucking disgusting and Gabe should put the hammer down.

I wonder what would happen if the bloggers who are infuriated at a couple of dorks making childish comics about their gaming lifestyles found Oglaf. Nothing, I suppose.

Hear hear. That’s absolutely across the line by miles and miles and miles. Fucking bastards.

He has. He told them to knock it off.

Right. So we actually mostly agree. Where we disagree, and your essential thesis, is that the simple usage of the word/concept “rape” in the joke somewhere makes it a “rape joke.”

My exegesis differs from yours as follows.

Penny Arcade is a gaming webcomic. It is written by gamers for an audience who are gamers and generally makes jokes about gaming. This particular comic is about gaming. This particular comic is about a particular type of game, the MMO.

Background for non-gamers. (Gamers may want to skip this and the next three paragraphs, as you already know this; but I welcome gamers who wish to audit my description of gaming mechanics and correct it.) An “MMO” is a game in which multiple players log on to a single set of servers which represent a world. In this world, they can communicate with each other, co-operate, and do “quests.” The quests generally follow one of two formulas: “Kill the Monster,” and “Fetch this (sometimes but not always hard-to-get) thing.”

A variation on the “fetch quest” is the “fetch me X number of the thing.” Now, in order to make the mechanics of a game with millions of players in a single world work, there has to be an infinite (or at least sufficient) number of whatever the thing is. Otherwise, only a small finite number of players out of the millions could actually acquire the thing(s). On the other hand, you can’t actually make the infinite (or sufficient) nature of the resource obvious, or the ubiquitous nature of the thing defeats the whole “hard-to-get” aspect.

To this end, what we have are “respawns.” Only some number of the thing will appear, and once claimed by one player, more will show up later on a set timer. But in order to encourage co-operative play, there are generally more of that item than there are required to meet the terms of the quest, so that a group of players at any given moment can all get the thing at once.

In order to motivate the player into feeling like something more heroic than a mailman, the “fetch quests” often get framed as something important; the rescue mission is a common way to frame this: The thing you are acquiring is a person, the difficulty comes from the evil foe guarding the person, and the place you’re taking the thing is back to its home.

(Gamers can start reading again.)

Now while framing a “fetch quest” as a “rescue mission” is a very common thing to do in games, it’s also a great example where the needs of good gameplay and the needs of good story come into conflict. And in games worth playing, the needs of gameplay usually win.

Now, getting to the comic proper. The comic features two characters in what, given the authors, expected audience and clearly fictitious circumstances (e.g., the period garb, the wolflike appearance of one of them) we can assume exist within a video game. In the first frame, one character speaks, and by the way that he addresses the other, the authors establish that within the game, one of them is a quest giver (and/or quest item), and the other is the player’s avatar in the game. (I am leaving a lot of the details out in the interest of time. I assume that most of the people reading this will understand why this is established in the first frame without me having to connect all of the dots.)

The first character then describes the horrors of his situation in grisly detail. He’s met with absolute indifference by the other, who responds, “Quest complete.”

The work is clearly satire. It takes a common problem – that of reconciling the needs of gameplay with the nuances of storytelling in games – and shows the problems with it through humorous exaggeration. Specifically, the problem of using a “rescue” as a fetch quest in an MMO, where you have more people to rescue than you’re actually called upon to do. It makes the player’s callousness to the quest-giver’s plight explicit, but this is not an accusation leveled at players; rather, it’s mocking game creators, for not giving the player any other choice.

It also fits the definition of satire in that people who missed the point attacked it; (see also: 1 2) people felt that the callous indifference of the avatar to the horrors faced by the quest-giver represented a callous indifference on the part of the authors towards people who have actually suffered the horrors described in real life.

Again, this is satire. The message within the comic, given the context and a very basic description of it that I’ve given, is that game designers need to be more sensitive to the situations they describe, lest they make supposedly heroic acts of the players into something far more self-serving. It is the same question that Richard Garriott asked himself and eventually led him to make Ultima IV; it’s the same question that Satan posed to God over Job’s good behavior: “He only does these good things because you reward him.”

The comic itself is a plea for more sensitivity, not less.

So now what happens when the very people who should be supporting that message miss the point so badly that they then decry it? Well, how would you feel? You’d feel upset, and (wrongly or rightly) lash out at those who so badly missed the point. So I find that I side with PA both in terms of the comic and the response. (I don’t necessarily agree with their response, but I find it completely understandable; moreover, I find the critics’ reaction to be more than merely ignorant, for a reason I’ll describe at the end of this post.)

You notice how I’ve gotten this far and haven’t even mentioned the one thing that is supposedly so offensive? That’s because the specific offensive act, in the context of the strip, doesn’t matter; what matters is that it be something horrible, to highlight the supposed callousness of the hero (which is actually the callousness of the game designer). While that means it doesn’t have to be the specific act given in the strip, that act is one on a very, very short list of horrors worthy of making the satire work.

If the first character in the comic were instead complaining that he had to e.g. tie his own shoes instead of having his servants do it for him, the comic might be funny, but it’s funny for an entirely different reason, and the problem that the comic is trying to address is no longer being addressed. If he were complaining that the cave mold were affecting his allergies, it’s addressing the issue, but so weakly as to have no force, and loses any semblance of being funny.

As for whether or not a given interpretation is “right” or not, I’d say this: The more of a work that is accounted for by a given interpretation, then the more valid the interpretation is. I believe that your interpretation (to some extent) is not very good, as it requires removing a single word from not just the context of the work, but from the work itself. The person who first objected to this strip on her blog went as far as to impose a completely different context onto the work which was neither accurate nor appropriate. It’s like trying to blame the Bangles for the destruction of Egyptian archaeological relics simply because they sang “Walk like an Egyptian.” (I admit it’s not a very good analogy; it only works in the sense of applying the wrong context to an event, not so much in the sense of missing the point of satire.)

So yes, my interpretation is better, significantly better, because mine accounts for the details of the work and the context of the work itself, and yours and other critics’ do not. And what is worse, I suspect that many of PA’s critics on this issue are leaving those details out not because they are ignorant of them; they are doing so deliberately, because those facts detract from their agenda.

Unless something has escaped Debacle’s keen tracking of the sitaution, Gabe told Dickwolvington to stop it, but the whole concept of ‘Team Rape’ is pretty grotesque and should be addressed. It’d be nice if he maybe suggested that his fans not actively posting in comments sections of people blogging about the situation shrieking at them that they’re assholes for going after Gabe. It wouldn’t stop them, but it’d make him look more adult than his current trend of tweeting overly defensive ‘jokes’ about how he’s contributing to the rape culture.

There was a point when his best bet was completely ignoring it and, hell, maybe that’d work here too. But nothing being done right now is helping.

Lum has a really good summary of the whole thing on his blog.

Extremely elaborate post, Rimbo. Since I don’t think Penny Arcade is funny I would never have the energy to pursue the point as you do, but well done.

What is the most striking to me about this conflict is that Gabe and Tycho obviously have no idea about feminism, about concepts like “rape culture”, about the terminologies and sensitivity checks rolled when you’re engaging in such a discussion. They are a couple of ultranerds labouring away at their comic strip, organizing strange game-oriented donation drives and conventions. They’re probably more concerned about the next Warmachine Rulebook than they are with reconciling Beauvoir and Dworkin in feminist discourse.

This, of course, makes them perfect targets - I doubt they have any understanding of the vocabulary of feminism or the conventions that become someone engaging with it in debate. When they make a shrill apology strip, don’t get what it’s all about, are surprised when a throng of bloggers whose existence is predicated on analyzing cultural artifacts for their gendered slant…well, it’s perfectly natural. They are labelled rape apologists and contributors to rape culture simply because they haven’t engaged with feminist discourse. Because they are ignorant.

It’s a sad spectacle to watch, and it sort of encapsulates how significant the draft is in “blogosphere discourse”. There are extremities that are fun to read, sensible but diffuse analysis that is a very well-worn, and no one having a conversation about anything except in treacherous commentary minefields. So the mandatory Tumblr is promptly rigged. Things begin drying up since the Penny Arcade guys are best served by shutting up. After all, there’s nothing to win by engaging in a superfluous debate whose origin is probably a demarcation line in the amount of hits you get.

It’s a sad sight.

First of all, you’re absolutely right that PA would’ve been better off by shutting up. Ignoring it would’ve been the best response in this case, from a strict PR perspective; not posting a new comic addressing it, and not making a Dickwolves shirt.

I can also understand reacting badly to someone missing the point so entirely that they accuse you of the opposite of your intention.

By the same token, what I quoted above is all the more reason why I ascribe malice, and not mere ignorance, to their critics. PA aren’t aware of the vocabulary, nor do they need to be. Understanding that (a) rape is a horrible thing and (b) rape victims need to be treated sensitively shouldn’t require a college diploma in order for someone to be able to show that. The sadness isn’t the PA guys’ ignorance of the subject. It’s that something very simple to express and understand has been made into something arcane for the purpose (in my opinion) of providing work for academics.

Your post also helps to support my points that (a) PA’s critics missed the point and (b) they are imposing an inappropriate context onto the strip to create a new meaning rather than examining the strip and its context to derive the existing meaning. That, to me, is far sadder than PA’s “ignorance of feminist terms.”

And what kind of person gives a shit if a person speaks the right jargon? I don’t support feminist causes by learning the language; I do it by treating women with the exact same condescension, arrogance and disrespect that I give to men. ;)