A Song of Ice and Fire


It’s certainly dry. In fact, the Aegon sections were disappointing to me, and pass so quickly that it’s as if GRRM is bored by it. His Jaehaerys chapters are probably the best in teh book, and that’s his favorite Targ king so the creative juices flowed a good bit for that portion of the book.


I remember attending one of GRRM’s events and he said something along the lines of “Ive forgotten more about Westeros than I remember.”

He wasn’t kidding that there are at least 3-4 novels worth of stuff lurking in this material. I’m sure in the future someone will adapt/expand on some of these stories.

The Jaeheyrs stuff is great. So much intrigue and tragedy, even during the reign of the most peaceful and prosperous Targaryen monarch. And his weakness was indulging his daughters too much. What nightmares they became.

Still, those early Targaryen reigns were something to behold.


I got a notification from my Library yesterday that my turn had come for Fire and Blood, so I dropped whatever I was reading and started my 2 weeks of reading this book. It certainly is more interesting than I thought it would be, right off the bat.


Gosh, I’m really loving this book. (Fire and Blood). There’s so many interesting stories here. Honestly, I was expecting more of the kind of stuff you hear about in Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History podcasts, you know, stuff like “none of the original sources reveal anything about this period, so we don’t really know what happened except through Herodotus’ plays”, etc.

But apparently the historian putting together Tangaryan history had plenty of good sources, since so far we pretty much know everything that happened in most situations.


The Jahaerys section was my favorite part.


Not sure whether I should listen to the audiobook or read the text. Given the number of names I will need to remember maybe the latter would be best.


Someone mentioned in the Game of Thrones TV episode section that the Night King is not a character in the books. Which leads to the inevitable question: Was he going to be introduced in the books by GRRM or not? And if he wasn’t, then how are the undead going to be defeated with a Night King kill that eliminates all undead everywhere? Without a Night King, even if they won the battle at Winterfell, the dead will always be a problem.

Of course, if there was to be no Night King, then I doubt the undead could have procured a dragon and broken through the wall. So that would make them easier to contain.

Edit: Oh fine. I’ll spoiler the section for book readers who refuse to watch the TV show.


Pretty sure he was introduced in the show when they were post-books, which would strongly suggest Night King is coming in the books eventually.

And I’m blurring his name, because folks that come to this thread may not watch the show and/or not want to know about what’s (probably) coming in the books.


I think after the show is over, I will re-read the books and rejoin people bitching that Martin isn’t writing fast enough.


At this point, I’d be somewhat content with a 4 page summary of the entire ending, just so we have an idea of what Martin actually intended vs. the HBO show. If it’s same, so be it. Also screw Martin with a thousand Valerian steel swords but so be it.


Bill Barr is working on it!


You made me laugh out loud at work.


Around the time the TV series started, they made a big deal about how GRRM had shared the remainder of the book’s plot with the producers. But my theory is that the further away they got from what was in GRRM’s mind (primarily Winds of Winter), the less defined the plot points became.

Like, I imagine they got a pretty solid outline of Winds of Winter. But I think they only thing they got for Dream of Spring was two bullet points reading 1) zombies get beaten, and 2) someone sits on the Iron Throne.


Has any POV character had the chance of knowing about the Night King?


In the books, the Night Kind is a figure out of either myth or history (or both, I can’t recall precisely) but is not an actual character currently existing that any of the POV characters have encountered. There probably is some type of Night King in the books to be revealed as the White Walkers act is they have some leadership or direction, but we haven’t seen that character yet in the books.


On the TV show, is he encountered for the first time by the characters at Hardhome? I can’t remember anymore. Or was the first time on their excursion North to capture a White Walker “alive”?

EDIT: I know he’s never going to finish, but I really hope we at least get Winds of Winter in book form one day. That will answer a LOT of questions on which parts were meant to be, and which parts the show fudged a bit or a lot.


Also, consider that GRRM has the luxury of revising the plan in large chunks as he moves along. He might have had an overview, but from what I’ve read, he’s not the kind of guy who does overviews well – he prefers to carve out the plot as it advances, and modify the plans to make them logical/realistic, which is a luxury authors have far more than TV screenwriters. This means even if he provided an overview, it’s highly likely he wouldn’t stick to it when push came to shove.


I hope so, and if we don’t I will be disappointed. I hate to sound the target of “George R R Martin isn’t your bitch,” but I think on a series of this length and years in the making you have an implied contract with your readers to finish. When he works on editing the other series, or working on Fire and Blood, I kinda feel like he should be finishing this story. He kinda reminds me of well, me, with started projects that I never finish.


What if the show is actually hewing very closing to what he had planned for the books, but he’s balked after seeing the negative reactions people have had to it?


We already started seeing major deviations from the books starting with the third season onwards. Just off the top of my head, the Sand Snakes, the Bronn and Jaime road show, a bunch of Mereen stuff, Tyrion and Jorah’s journey, almost everything with Melisandre, etc.

I think in broad strokes, the showrunners followed the plot of the books, but there’s no way the specific set piece events happened the way the books were headed.