I don’t think posting on a message board is raising too much of a stink. And if it was a player guild I would either choose to avoid them or, if that was not possible and the GMs had no intention of interfering, I’d quit.
Having read a little more about ATITD now, I have to say I’d probably have never started playing it to begin with. Hardcoded skills differences between the genders are not my cup of tea either.
Well, in real life there seem to be well-understood and documented skills differences between genders.
I’m not saying that the ones in atitd are the a perfect analogy (they couldn’t be, as that would require a level of simulation for which we just don’t have the technology). But still, I’m trying to figure this out. You’re saying that a game is only your cup of tea if it doesn’t remind you of parts of real life that you’d rather not be so? That can’t quite be right, because you probably play a lot of games where the player gets killed. So is this only related to discrimination or things that might remind you of discrimination? (e.g. Skills differences are not “discrimination” in the derogatory sense of the word if they’re balanced, but they could remind one of real-life discrimination).
There’s a LOT of things I don’t want to see in games. I fucking hate racing games, for instance. Discrimination issues are just another thing I don’t find fun, so I don’t want to deal with them in games.
Sounds like a PR stunt. But I wouldn’t like to play with the sort of subscribers this’d attract.
I have no dog in this fight as I hate MMORPGs, but is there no mechanic in this game for the female citizens to organize and, say, stab this annoying character in the back? Run him out of town? Couldn’t they create an in-game law against discrimination in trading or something?
That’s what they did. He was run out of two different areas, was discovered to be a thief, and is now a fugitive from justice in hiding.
That’s what makes this so unbelievably ridiculous. No one liked the trader. Not a single person has gone “You know, this is a great NPC”. You could propose a law forcing him to wear a ballgag dildo and it probably would’ve been passed.
Then, players have the choice to keep playing or not. They can find a way around the jackhole merchant or drive him out of town or close their individual circle to him or whatever. If they are sufficiently offended, players certainly have the right to leave. Not everyone wants social commentary in their games or reminders of the real world.
sgh! The entire concept of the fucking game is social commentary. It’s such a stupid argument for people already playing the game to use even if you overlook the fact that it’s relevant in the context of the gameworld presented. It’s social commentary whether they like it or not. It’s social commentary that some people are too stupid to do anything about it and would rather pitch a fit and try to get someone else to do something about it in the most ineffectual way possible even though they essentially have complete control over their environment.
Congratulations, burn a bra and shut the fuck up. The fact is that this little incident is nothing terribly out of the ordinary if you’ve already signed on for everything else about the game. You’re not destroying the future of games, you’re just exaggerating and completely dodging the issue.
There’s a LOT of things I don’t want to see in games. I fucking hate racing games, for instance. Discrimination issues are just another thing I don’t find fun, so I don’t want to deal with them in games.
So i guess KotOR is off your list for that reason alone too? Or would you also play the bullshit “I don’t like RPGs anyway” card for that one?
This is incredible. I do like RPGs. I have not played KoTOR. Anything else you want to sling at me for daring to not agree with you?
What the hell does that first sentence have to do with the issue?
That’s what they did. He was run out of two different areas, was discovered to be a thief, and is now a fugitive from justice in hiding.[/quote]
But obviously, if you want to be on the knee-jerk bandwagon, this is not enough! Evil characters must be like british spy villains, polite to a fault and kill you with a smile.
Character in game acts badly, players group together and take action which banishes evil character. BUT HE WAS JUST TOO EVIL!!!
Angie, I think you are reaching to make this a point you want it to be, not to what really happened.
Chet
The only point I am making is that I wouldn’t want to play a game where this came up. I know that there are in-game ways for players to resolve it, but that requires a player who wants to resolve it. I am not that player.
While Jon R. is showing his usual flair for abusive language, he has a point: if the entire idea behind a game is to give the players a sandbox for developing social-contract ethics, it’s totally reasonable to throw the playerbase an actual challenge once in a while to see if they can handle it. If players don’t understand this, then the game isn’t for them.
Angie, you sound an awful lot like you think ATITD should be as sanitized as every other MMO out there, despite the fact that the game warns players in advance that they will probably be offended. I don’t see any logic for this position at all, unless it’s the same brand of “logic” that gives us hot-coffee lawsuits against McDonalds, detailed instructions printed on the side of a toothpick box, and nastygram RSI warnings on the bottoms of keyboards and mice.
What? All I have said is how I react to things. I never once said that the game shouldn’t exist, only that I would not pay to play it. Me, singular, one person who has no interest in the game.
Edit: I guess I have also implied that it’s ok for others to not pay to play something they don’t enjoy. If that’s controversial I don’t even know what to say.
Wow…
Sometimes I fear for the sanity of my sex. I’m actually amused by it, moreso because of all the knee jerk reactions that the incident seems to have caused. It’s a game, there’s rping…christ I had RP slaves in Shadowbane (I played in an amazon guild, I had male slaves) and I didn’t hear THEM whining and crying.
So just wtf :/
FWIW I understood Angie’s point from the start. What’s wrong with you guys?
Bub and Angie sitting in a tree…
Ack!
What is Matt Gallant doing here? I am so out of this tree!
The social retardation of someone who would use this in an arguement is staggering. I’m assuming Jon R is not alone here among those whose closest relationship to a woman is prising the sticky pages of his magazine open.
Would the outcry over a trader who wouldn’t trade with “niggers” or “kikes” see similar defenses such as have been presented here? IMHO it looks like an experiment gone horribly wrong by a group of people who don’t understand how offensive and downright stupid such a stunt is. Are there similar goings on in ATITD on a regular basis? Wouldn’t it have just been simpler for the organisers to say “sorry, we fucked up” instead of all this bullshit about grand online social experiments?
Would the outcry over a trader who wouldn’t trade with “niggers” or “kikes” see similar defenses such as have been presented here? IMHO it looks like an experiment gone horribly wrong by a group of people who don’t understand how offensive and downright stupid such a stunt is. Are there similar goings on in ATITD on a regular basis? Wouldn’t it have just been simpler for the organisers to say “sorry, we fucked up” instead of all this bullshit about grand online social experiments?[/quote]
I’d defend them just the same. Mind you, I’m not sure how the idea of a “kike” or a “nigger” would apply in the context of the game, but if he’d come in and said “I don’t deal with swarthy skinned people. They’re beneath me.” it’d be exactly the same.
Color me on the side of understanding where Angie is too. I don’t understand why she’s there, because it’s not my viewpoint, but you guys are extrapolating all sorts of crap from her saying “I don’t like it, I wouldn’t pay for it.” Maybe we can ask her if she’d like to discuss whether or not she thinks there’s any place in games for exploring such issues as a generic topic, even if she has no interest (although I suspect the answer to one is contained in the other, frankly).
I’ve seen folks posting other places about how it’s a game, and the purpose of the game is to entertain folks, and this type of stuff isn’t entertaining. I think it’s abundantly clear that while entertaining folks may be a purpose of ATITD, it has other purposes as well. I’m interested in those purposes, both as part of a game, and as a larger overall view into how societies form. The whole “social dynamic” portion of MMOs isn’t going away any time soon. ATITD is just poking at the boundaries far sooner than mainstream games are going to. However, the mainstream stuff will get there eventually. Unless the entire genre dies out, which I don’t see happening.
Never get between a MMORPG gamer and their new shiny.