Abortion provider Dr. Tiller shot and killed


After surviving bombing attempts on his clinic and a previous murder attempt, … I’d write something cynical here about the pro-life movement, but screw it. A sad day.

It’s not just the pro-life movement. It’s right-wing terrorism, pure and simple.

This is what all they’ve pushing for since Obama took office, and they need to take responsibility for it.

You mean the way they are all condemning it, right now?

Or are you suggesting that the GOP was encouraging murdering doctors?

In an indirect way, yes.

You’ve got it all wrong. Operation Rescue sent their condolences as only religious fundamentalists can:

“We are shocked at this morning’s disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down,” anti-abortion group Operation Rescue said in a statement on its Web site. “Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller’s family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”

That’s called “covering your ass” with a bit of backhanded gloating added.

So will the pro-torture Republicans support grabbing everyone associated with this perpetrator and waterboarding them until they tell us who is likely to commit a similar type of crime?

I mean we have to step up and do the unpleasant to protect America right?

I mean the way the right went apeshit over a document designed to curb this kind of domestic terrorism.


Except that document wasn’t “designed to curb this kind of domestic terrorism”. It didn’t single out pro-life groups or religious groups at all. It called attention to Gadsden flags and other “revolutionary” symbols… IE, Libertarians and veterans.

Edit: My mistake, looks like there is one sentence that mentions abortion groups. However, that wasn’t the part that “The Right” objected to. They objected to lumping libertarian and libertarian-leaning groups in with anti-immigration, anti-abortion, and white power groups. And additionally to the statement that veterans in particular should be viewed with a degree of concern as they would be sought after recruits by extremist organizations and would be more likely to join them

You know, glomping onto the first abortion-provider murder in the US in over a decade as evidence of a horde of rampaging right-wing terrorism is exactly the kind of baseless overblown rhetoric hyperbole the “reality based community” lampooned and pilloried in the years following 9/11. Seriously Mayer, have some perspective. You sound like little green footballs circa 2003.

As an aside, the combination of the application of RICO laws putting everybody in the anti-abortion movement seriously involved in non-violent active demonstrations (i.e. clinic blockades) into retirement or in prison, and the draconian law enforcement environment of post-9/11 America means that we’re never going to see a repeat of the 1980s.

I think you are characterizing the issue quite dishonestly.

It’s factually true to state that this was the first successful murder of an abortion provider in 10 years, but the implication that the last ten years have been placid and peaceful and this is some sort of freak incident is quite untrue. There have been attempted murders and firebombings and other violent acts aplenty in the last ten years.

I think you are characterizing the issue quite dishonestly.

It’s factually true to state that this was the first successful murder of an abortion provider in 10 years. However, that implies quite falsely that the last ten years have been placid and peaceful and this is some sort of freak incident. Not true at all. There have been attempted murders and firebombings and other violent acts aplenty in the last ten years.

This is not some isolated freak incident, this is the latest manifestation of violence in a continuing pattern. If nothing is done, its quite reasonable to believe the pattern will continue.

I have to pull out the stats when this subject comes up every now and again, have a perusal at the statistics compiled by the National Abortion Federation, an organization I think we can agree has a vested interest in making sure incident reporting doesn’t slip through the cracks.

Here’s their page for ‘extreme violence’ and they have a very nice summary pdf.

So, those are the stats for a nation that now stands at over 300 million people over a subject that has been one of the more hotly debated in our society, to say the least.

I ask you, looking at the stats, what are the trends? Further, looking at the incidents of actual attempts to murder as a subset, are there even any trends or just outliers? The numbers have been small enough that you can in the course of an hour go back and look at the people convicted for the various murders. You won’t find any vast conspiracy.

The pro-choice advocacy groups have done a masterful job of maximizing the PR from the occasional tragedy committed by a nutjob to paint a movement with tinges of violent extremism far out of proportion to actual reality.

edit: Still think I’m treating the issue dishonestly? Frankly I don’t mind being called wrong or off my head, I do mind being considered dishonest. Although in my previous post I was trying to stick to opinion, not facts…

This is horrible news. Dr. Tiller did good work for women who desperately needed it. He was incredibly brave in the face of both legal and physical danger. No one ever thinks they’re going to face something like anencephaly, but when they did, Dr. Tiller was one of the only doctors in the country (if not THE only) who would provide them with an abortion.

I am more acquainted with the anti-abortion movement than I would care to be, and I know they certainly run the gamut from harmless (if incredibly nasty) church ladies to scary extremists.

We had a clinic blockade in '07, and yes, it was non-violent. But it attracted the attention and presence of individuals who advocate for justifiable homicide, individuals who had made threats against our doctor and our staff, and a group of men trespassed on our property near the back entrance where our doctor enters. Protesters routinely showed up at her secluded country house. There were seriously deranged individuals out there, and they do get whipped up by the rhetoric of the non-violent crowd.

I do believe that for the craziest of them, if it wasn’t abortion it’d be something else. They’re just unhinged and need their holy crusade.

Still doesn’t seem too good to me, and the main reason we haven’t seen a successful one of these in a while is the stepped-up security measures that every abortion clinic has had to take, but one thing I find interesting about that pdf is the way the violence has these massive spikes in years following the elections of George W. Bush. I think that probably says more about the influence of the right-wing rhetoric being spewed by these dicks than anything else.

I’m not sure why but this bothers me the most out of anything in that article (aside from the murder itself).

Does anyone else find it ironic that he was murdered at church?

Those have improved clinic security and made it harder to blockade or destroy a facility. Not so helpful against people willing to actually murder. If you’re willing to murder someone, you’re willing to stalk them.

Which are you talking about, the anomalous “Anthrax Threats” in 2001? C’mon, everybody was getting those that year, right-wing cranks, left-wing cranks, everybody with no imagination was jumping on that bandwagon. An envelope of flour becomes the macarana of crank threads. Other than that, the only thing that jumps out is an odd spike in recorded “Trespassing” that jumped an order of magnitude in 2005 before declining again. There’s probably a particular story behind that, would be interesting to know what it was. I’m not seeing what you’re seeing (especially if we’re looking at the first three columns), but maybe I’m missing something.

We may safely presume that Dr. Tiller’s murderer already enjoys this comfort and healing.

Meanwhile, how nice that Operation Rescue pursued peaceful, legal means to “bring him to justice” for his peaceful, legal activities.

Beltway Sniper?