It’s probably a “we won, let’s set some cars on fire!” thing. Like Jessica M having random people in cars calling her names after Bush won in 2004.
What on earth does the beltway sniper have to do with this thread? afaik he wasn’t even a right-wing wacko, much less had anything to do with abortion.
Looking at the news story about Dr. Tiller, I daresay Occam would suggest this was the trigger for the crime:
In March, Tiller was acquitted of 19 counts of performing procedures unlawfully at his clinic. In 2008, a probe initiated by abortion opponents who petitioned state authorities to convene a grand jury ended without charges.
The murderer probably thought justice had failed and decided to take the law into his own hands and started planning.
Which is exactly why we’re saying this isn’t about abortion, it’s about eliminationist right-wing rhetoric in general.
The whole security theater bit. When was the last time Tiller was Shot? 1993, yeah, 8 months after Clinton was elected. This time it only took them 4 months.
You bring up anthrax? How’d that work out while Bush was keeping us safe?
Thank god we had such tough and steely security procedures in place that there was no way another Mohammed could attack us.
Speaking of which I almost forgot about that. I’ll make sure I bring that up next time some conservative asshat tells me that Bush kept us safe after 9/11.
For perspective, between 9/11/2001 and 11/28/2006 there were 554 letters with white powder claiming to be anthrax and the usual death threats sent to abortion providers, Planned Parenthood, et al. There was also a guy who tried to ram his car rigged to explode into what he thought was an abortion clinic(it wasn’t) in an effort to blow it up. It just seems to me if 554 letters came from Al-Queda members within the US claiming to contain Anthrax that law enforcement would be on the ball.
Interesting…
Suspect identified as Scott Roeder. Oh, and what do you know? He apparently has a prior… as an anti-government whack charged with criminal use of explosives.
That’s great. You quoted the Operation Rescue founder. Congratulations.
"George Tiller was a mass murderer and we cannot stop saying that," Terry said. "He was an evil man — his hands were covered with blood."
Terry said he was now concerned that the Obama administration "will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions."
Yep. Quoted him real good. Stone cold murdering a guy in church while his wife looked on from the choir is “effective rhetoric and action”.
19 misdemeanor counts of getting a second opinion from a doctor who was not technically “independent.” Occam says it’s time to get up a lynchin’ party!
Watch this… I’m gonna quote even better:
While many anti-abortion leaders swiftly issued statements condemning the shooting, their expressions of dismay were not echoed by Randall Terry, a veteran anti-abortion activist whose protests have often targeted Tiller.
“George Tiller was a mass murderer and we cannot stop saying that,” Terry said. “He was an evil man - his hands were covered with blood.”
Terry said he was now concerned that the Obama administration “will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions.”
Soo… everyone except this one guy who founded a wacko group, and isn’t even the leader anymore. This same idiot was responsible for the Terri Schivo fiasco. Gotcha.
See? Look at this guy I found! This proves that the right wing is not all condemning it!
You mean
Let’s just remember where Bill O’Reilly stood on this, which actually provides the perfect connection to the other thread related to this.
The one thing I have to say about that clip is how an abortion is not the same as other procedures. I’m pro-choice, but there needs to significant and honest counseling before and after abortions because they can be traumatic. And I’m key on the choice part, there needs to be someway to help ensure that parents aren’t forcing their kids to choose one way or another.
You shall not murder. [Exodus 20:13, NIV]
People who kill doctors make me angry and sad.
I agree with the people in this thread that laid partial blame on those anti-abortion groups that used rhetoric which inspired angry and violent responses from certain people. It amazes me that people are able to care about an issue that for them is about the murder of an unborn baby, and respond by murdering another person.
For me, being radical about an issue is fine, establishing an organisation to spread your point of view onto certain mediums is fine, but when it’s a controversial and anger-inducing topic the leaders of these organisations have a huge responsibility to drum into their followers that violence is never the answer. Take MLK, or Gandhi, or Jesus; they constantly reiterated that using violence to support radical social change ruins everything. I believe these anti-abortion groups need to end every speech about the evils of abortion with a similar pacifistic pronouncement, and ideally they should mean it. Otherwise, they are partially responsible for any nut that takes it too far and hurts (or even worse kills) someone out of it.
Take MLK, or Gandhi, or Jesus; they constantly reiterated that using violence to support radical social change ruins everything.
Yep.
I think Jesus was more against radical social change (“render to Caesar what is Caesar’s”) in general than the use of violence to achieve it; He wasn’t above, say, chasing a bunch of people out of a temple with a big stick.
I think most people get that Jesus’ use of terms like “armor” and “sword” was symbolic (if not outright sarcasm directed at their ideas of what the Messiah ought to be) … but there’s always those nutcases out there who just gotta take everything the way they’d like them to mean…
Here’s another great quote from CS Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters (Note that the below is written by a fictional demon, so black is white, up is down, “desirable” is really not – e.g. “The Enemy” refers to God)
This is, to me, a very good description of the mindset of all terrorists (not just abortion doctor murderers) and how they differ from what God says we are to do.
OFF-TOPIC:
I don’t really agree with that; Jesus was very single-minded about Pacifism. In the sermon on the mount he instructeed his disciples to not resist evil physically, to turn the other cheek if attacked, and to love their enemies. He condemned the Old Testaments use of “eye for an eye”, and things like that. His message of radical social change extended towards the Jewish temple system, the religious hierarchy, and the way that certain groups within his society were greatly marginalised under this domination system. Blessed are the destitute, easier for a camel to go through an eye of a neeedle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, etc. His activity around rural galilee rarely interacted with areas that had were heavily occupied by Roman soldiers. The only really large urban centre he entered appeared to be Jerusalem right before his death.
He said render unto Caesar because he considered material wealth to be corruptive, and so it didnt really matter to him if it was paid to Rome. Likewise, according to the Gospels the cleansing of the temple did not have any violence against other people, just against tables. It’s also indicative of the social structure he was protesting against.