Abu Ghirab kills people

The Guardian reports that news (from Newsweek) that US soldiers desecrated the Koran–and at one point flushed pages of it down the toilet as a technique for humiliating and breaking detainees at Guantanamo–has provoked a second day of protests and then rioting in Jalalabad, this time with loss of life. On Tuesday, 2000 students had demonstrated. On Wednesday, 5,000 to 10,000 university, medical and K-12 students came out, and then they went on the attack, including against US troops. Four died and 70 were injured

"At least four people were killed and dozens injured in a riot in eastern Afghanistan yesterday after police fired on demonstrators protesting about reports that the Qur'an had been desecrated by US soldiers in Guantanamo Bay. Offices in Jalalabad were set on fire, shops sacked and consulates and UN buildings attacked by rioters, according to witnesses. Police fired to disperse crowds several times and army helicopters were said to have "buzzed" the crowds. Doctors in the city confirmed that four people had died."

Torture sure works, huh?

Professor of history Jason?

Don’t tell me you couldn’t find a better reference.

KABUL, Afghanistan, May 13 - Thousands of Muslims, from Gaza to Pakistan to Indonesia, emerged from prayer services on Friday to join Afghans in rapidly spreading protests over the reported desecration of a Koran by American interrogators at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

In Afghanistan, at least 8 people were killed and more than 40 injured in clashes, bringing the death toll over four days of anti-American rioting to at least 16, with more than 100 injured. For the first time a policeman was killed in the violence.

Three protesters were killed and 23 people wounded as the police grappled with a crowd of more than 1,500 in Baharak, in far northeastern Badakhstan, the police chief of the province, Gen. Shah Jehan Nuri, said in a telephone interview. Ten police officers and members of the border police, who are based in the town, were among the injured, he said.

In three Pakistan cities, Peshawar, Quetta and Multan, hundreds of protesters led largely by religious parties burned American flags and chanted anti-American slogans after Friday Prayer. The protests were peaceful, though, thanks in large part to the large numbers of police officers deployed outside mosques and official buildings.

Hundreds of people gathered peacefully outside a mosque in Jakarta on Friday while a statement was read condemning the United States for the reported abuses. In Gaza, about 1,500 members of the radical Islamic group Hamas marched through the Jabaliya refugee camp as outrage spread over the reports, including a brief item in Newsweek, that interrogators at Guantánamo Bay had flushed a Koran down the toilet in an effort to upset detainees.

Protesters carrying the green banners of Islam and Hamas shouted, “Protect our holy book!” Some burned American and Israeli flags. Anti-American protests are rare among militant Palestinians, who decry American support for Israel but emphasize that their struggle is with Israel, not the United States.

The White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said Friday that officials at the Department of Defense were investigating reports of the desecration, and that “they take such allegations very seriously,” but he did not indicate when the investigation would be completed, Reuters reported. “We will not tolerate any disrespect for the holy Koran,” he added.

In Afghanistan, where the protests began Wednesday, the violence seemed to be spreading, with demonstrations in several provincial towns. Police officers and Afghan National Army troops were prepared in many places but still had trouble quelling the violence, which was directed at the government and international organizations.


Wait wait wait, so flushing pages of a book down a toilet is torture now? Can anybody possibly dilute the meaning of the word torture any more for us? Thanks.

Well, the way some people howl and whine when somebody makes a joke about Jesus or implies that there are Christians who are pretty much the opposite of good people, you’d think someone is putting bamboo slivers under their fingernails. Maybe muslims are the same way about being a witness to the equally minor toilet misuse.

But the Christians are victims in America. Why can’t you see that?

Did anyone say it was? Not torture, but it’s rather mind-bogglingly stupid and counterproductive.

Did anyone say it was? [/quote]

So, yes.

And that other people consider their own social pressures torture isn’t exactly convincing. In fact it makes my point. We take a word which is supposedto have an extreme connotation and soften it up by equivocating every little thing we don’t like into it. You want to say loud music and flashing lights is torture? Well I disagree, but it’s a damn sight closer than “watching someone put your book in a potty”.

Don’t be simple. The fact you might not get upset to see someone put a holy book in the shitter is irrelevant. Clearly that’s just the trigger that’s setting off alot of built up mistrust and hostility. Reports of American uses of torture, and don’t think exporting prisoners to countries that are famous for torture doesn’t count, coupled with Karzi stating America is planning on permanent bases…yeah, I think we’ve pretty much worn out the welcome mat. Much of the money we’ve promised isn’t translating into improved situations for much of the population there and we’re trying to pressure local warlords and the central government (such as it is) into cutting poppy production - with no economic alternatives.

Flushing the Koran is just a really easy to understand fuse for infurating strict Muslims. It’s completely counterproductive if it’s true and even if it’s not this just goes to reinforce my continuing belief we should have stuck with getting Afghanistan right before letting the neocons declare war on the Middle East. All the resources we’ve blown putting a dictator (much like our pals in Uzbekistan but with…oil) out of business who had no WMD and no serious ties to Al Qaida (unlike our pals in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) - those resources could and should have been invested in making Afghanistan recover. Now it may well slip into a relapsed state if this keeps up.

We’re fucking morons. You can’t lob the torch of Liberty at folks and expect them to snatch it up when they’ve seen what you can do with the electric battery and jumper cables of Liberty elsewhere. Nobody’s quite that stupid. And this is a “war” we can only win through ideas and argument…people need to believe us when we say we have good intentions and uphold the standards of law and human rights. Bah. Fuck it. I still can’t believe we’ve gotten into this situation with this utterly incompetant administration.

Limiting “torture” to include only physical pain is equally unconvincing. If nobody physically harmed the Abu Ghraib prisoners who were forced to masturbate into each other’s mouths, does that mean they weren’t tortured? Personally, I think I would have preferred physical pain to that sort of humiliation, even if that is only a result of my own social pressures. And if a devout Muslim would prefer physical pain to witnessing the desecration of the Quran, how is that any different, other than better PR back home?

Can you be “forced” to masturbate into someone else’s mouth? Jeez, you guys must really be some “macho” men! As a transvestite gay guy, I wish I had your testosterone!

who were forced to masturbate into each other’s mouths

More bullshit liberal propaganda.

Imagine there’s no heaven,
It’s easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today…

Ok, Detective Cindy, maybe you should notify the military of your conclusions so they can convinct Spc. Matthew Wisdom of perjury.

Jason are you as stupid as these guys?


None of you seem to be upset that people were tortured. You all are upset that a Koran got ripped up. Why don’t you focus on actual incidences of torture.

By the way when someone burns an american flag abroad we don’t ask that the offending country hand over the person who did it and threaten to rain death and destruction down upon the populace if they don’t.

For all you liberals who are up in arms over the Koran ripping please don’t call yourself a liberal any more. Liberals know that people are more important than books any day.

You are strange.

So this is how you get McCullough like post numbers, instead of replying to the topic at hand you post ambiguous statements and then later you can follow up with the real reply. Two posts counted for one reply. That’s brilliant.

According to CNN, Newsweek is recanting: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html

Talk about bad journalism… this isn’t the kind of story that is easily “recalled” from the Arab world.

Can I sue Newsweek for torturing me with false stories that desecrate my sense of patriotism and hurt my trust in the media? :)

So actually, Abu Ghirab isn’t killing people, Newsweek’s bad reporting is. Ironic…

I would still like to point out that real incidences of electric shock, beatings, sexual molestation and harrassment weren’t enough to call in the forces of Jihad.

Good to know that the Imams who watch over the Muslim community have the best interests of the people at heart.