Which ATS set(s) did you start with? I see there is an ATS 3rd Edition which lists for $100 or so but sells for $50 at retailers. Of course, none of them have it in stock.
I did not get the third one because I never made it that far before not having anyone to play with. My online partner lost interest, and the local guy had a kid shortly before I did, so our schedules are pretty much shot. I think the second one is definitely worth it and I advocate playing through in order because the scenarios are pretty good at gradually introducing new elements. If I recall correctly, the first scenario doesn’t even have support weapons.
The rules don’t really change from the starter kits to the full game, there are just suddenly a whole lot more of them. I somewhat agree with awdougherty in that there’s still a really large gap between the starter kits and the full rules, but the starter kits ease the burden in learning the full game. However, it’s not like every scenario uses all 400,000 pages of the ASLRB. You’ve got 150ish (wild guess) of core rules and then everything else will be very dependent on the scenario. And as already mentioned, you’ll forget rules.
If you decide on ATS, here’s a link from a site I’ve ordered from a lot.
http://wargamedepot.com//catalog/criticalhit-m-17.html?osCsid=dsej8qv5qjptsngisrjoulpfd4
Of course, I would say definitely read up on it before pulling the trigger.
I started with the Basic Game 1A Screaming Eagles. I think that should have a 4 page rulebook. I then messed a little with the Stalingrad basic game 2, which has a 20 page rulebook or so. I currently own panther line north, clash along the psel, classic advanced tobruk (maybe the best deal of the bunch given the # of scenarios), and the full stalingrad.
The full rulebook is 60 pages long. pgs 51 and on are examples of play, an index, some appendices and optional rules, and a little fluff.
As for what game to start with, either start with the intro ones, or if you are undaunted by the full jump, find the battle that interests you (and is in stock). A lot of the ones I mentioned were between 20 and 50 dollars. They all include everything you need to play.
quick edit: as just mentioned, the starter kits have programmed instruction and it is ingenious for learning the rules. start kit 3 introduces vehicles I think, and once through all three kits, you will have definitely encountered a nice cross section of what ASL can offer.
This thread is dangerous to my wallet. I ordered the ATS Basic Ia set. I suppose this is not so bad since if I want to really get into one of these I should try them all first.
I also came across Retro, which seems to be a thing that sits on top of ASL and simplifies it a lot.
But can you play this in ATS???
http://www.gamersarmory.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=324
Keep us updated with your thoughts on ATS. I looked into that system before I got into ASL and having local players is what nudged me towards ASL.
There is a zombie mod for ASL?
Dammit!!!
Oh well, I agree that it might be easier to find ASL players. If you already have a group willing to experiment in the exact opposite way that hot sorority girls experiment in college, then what the hell. definitely post some thoughts when you get a chance.
I own Retro and dig it. In fact i like all Minden games products.
As for ASL its a fun system that Starter Kit will keep you going for a long while and there are two others as well so I would not be in any rush to buy a bunch of other stuff just yet.
Do you play many wargame/board games? Take a favourite example, improve/tweak, and make your own on cardboard - fun(for you and friends) for a few dollars and a small(ish) amount of work :b
[If we want to save money that is…]
Online partner who lost interest reporting in! I’ve been experiencing a resurgent interest in ASL lately and if anyone wants to screw around with a scenario I’d be happy to play along.
What specific bit of grognardicity are you looking for? Because Conflict of Heroes and Combat Commander may not be ultra-complicated rulefests, but they’ve got some real depth to them. (Tide of Iron, not so much.)
I can also attest to the awesomeness of Conflict of Heroes. There is probably no other game that I wish I could play more.
I am in love with overly complicated rulesets. Even if I never get to play it I will pick up a copy of the ASLRB just to leaf through it and dream.
Having said that, Conflict of Heroes and Combat Commander both look really cool and I imagine I will pick them up at some point too. I bet my FLGS has them both in stock too.
Good man. Let me know when you are ready to move up a notch in ground scale… :)
I hate this thread.
OCS is pretty complex, but it really doesn’t hold a candle to ASL. The difficulty in OCS games comes from the enormous scope of the campaigns, not the ruleset.
If you love rules, it’s definitely worth picking up the ASLRB then. I’ve paged through it, and it’s pretty damn awesome. I can’t imagine ever playing it, but the rules are great. They have rules for horse-drawn wagons, including special rules for galloping:
[INDENT]12.4 GALLOP: Provided it is not already CX, a wagon may increase its MF allotment by half for its present MPh by declaring a Gallop at the start of that MPh and placing a CX counter on the unit. The CX counter affects both the wagon and any Passengers on it. Any wagon increasing its MF in this manner must undergo an immediate Wreck Check dr in every hex in which it changes its VCA or pays more than one MF for entry [EXC: entering a higher elevation via a road hexside]. If it rolls a 6, the wagon is eliminated. Any Passengers/SW are broken/malfunctioned (or eliminated in the case of X# SW).
[/INDENT]Not a wagon fan? Prefer bicycles? You’re covered!
[INDENT]15.81 MOVEMENT: Bicycles have no MP allotment of their own. Instead, they have four MF (as per A4.11-.12) and use Infantry - not vehicular - movement [EXC: they may not use Assault Movement]. Bicycles may be ridden only across road hexsides , where they halve the MF costs of their Riders - provided they are not in a shellhole or entrenchment hex, gaining elevation, on a dirt road during Mud, or on a non-plowed road during Snow. A bicycle receives a one MF bonus for each level of elevation it descends while on a road and a one MF bonus for remaining on a road throughout its MPh (as per B3.4). There is no cost to mount/dismount a bicycle.
[/INDENT]
Did that say snow? Oh yes it did.
[INDENT]3.71 FALLING SNOW: Falling Snow is always accompanied by Overcast conditions, even if the snowfall ends. Falling Snow re-occurs on a Wind Change DR >= 10 and stays in effect until stopped by a Wind Change DR <= 3 (regardless of intensity). Once stopped, snowfall can start again on a Wind Change DR >= 10. If a Wind Change DR >= 10 occurs while it is already snowing, the intensity of the precipitation increases such that the Mist LV Hindrance DRM (3.32) is + 1 at <= six hexes, and is increased by +1 at all ranges > six hexes but can never increase further regardless of subsequent Wind Change DR.
[/INDENT]It’s on that border between insane and insanely great.
FWIW, my opinion of ASL is that it is the poster child of the “complexity for complexity’s sake” school of game design. I don’t think the chrome which makes up the bulk of the rules add anything to the system’s value as either a game or a simulation.
I love how the ASL rules use acronyms and abbreviations for everything. As if printing out Movement Phase instead of MPh would cause harm.
What it really felt like to me, reading the rules, is what D&D would be if it was oppositional and had no gamemaster, but was still trying to preserve the “you can do anything you want” gameplay. What other wargame would support your plan to hide from the enemy by starting a fire with an elaborate season, weather, and terrain-dependent fire starting table?
D&D supports that kinda stuff with a few simple rules and human judgment, but ASL has to replace human judgment with a monstrous book of precise rules. Less practical, but who wants to moderate an ASL game?
One thing I will say, Ezdaar, you can’t really go wrong with anything in this thread. I always like that there are a few really solid options out there. I think the acronyms end up like reading clockwork orange after a while. You just get it.