Age of Wonders 3


Well I’ve seen that grandfather’s funeral article posted at least a dozen times around the gaming sphere now.

The problem is the gaming developers keep posting their challenges at work as if it’s unique to them, as if they’re the only ones with hard jobs, and they’re the only ones who do creative works and face criticism and backlash for it. They certainly are not. It’s not unique to gaming. We all have challenges with work, and the fact is if you deal with the public sometimes the problem is dealing with the public… no matter what industry it is.

We should be able to discuss DLC approaches without hearing that if we repeat DLC concerns or complaints somewhere a developer just had his or her wings ripped off though.

I think Paradox is crossing a line with DLC. I’m not freaking out about it, but I think it’s too much and too often. That doesn’t invalidate concerns about loot boxes, F2P models, or EA titles… it’s just a part of the discussion about DLC. I just would rather not see AOW, assuming that’s the title coming out, follow the same path.


Well said Nesrie.


No one is stopping you from criticizing whatever you want about gaming. And I’m certainly not taking on the job of paradox apologist having never played a single title by them because I can’t be bothered even beginning to sort out WTF is going on with the veritable blizzard of DLC they dump on the world.

But to call out game devs as not the only ones in the line of fire sounds like you’re saying to be subjected to harassment on the internet is just an occupational hazard so tolerate it and shut up, which I find of particular amusement since it’s why I’m actually in this forum, to avoid that very thing.

Much of what passes on the internet in the way of game discussion and criticism is a dumpster fire, so it’s also not terribly surprising to me some game developers took a moment to whine about it.


I think what @Nesrie is saying is that the abuse people in creative professions receive online is a result of being online, rather than a particular hazard of being a game developer. GG and all that crap is terrible, and no one is saying game developers should just quietly suck it up, rather that the Grandfather’s Funeral piece and a lot of other articles wrongly point to online abuse as something unique to gaming.

As example, the following passages would apply to all creative fields. Acting, singing, writing, game development, etc. Heck, you can apply it really to almost anyone that has a public presence online regardless of field that ends up in the crosshairs of one or other terrible group.

For the record, I’m not suggesting online abuse has just started to become an issue in the last year. What I’m drawing attention to here is the normalisation of online abuse — both from the perspective of content creators and from the point of view of the audience. It is now, for a significant part of our audience, the way in which they communicate with creators.

There are those who’d say (rightly) that some level of abuse has always been a part of having a public presence, but it’s clear things have got worse over the last couple of years. I don’t think it’s possible to easily identify a single specific cause, although there’s a clear point where the dam burst.

It’s not just gaming. It’s everywhere.


It’s a hazard of both online , and being in a profession where supply exceeds demand, unless you’re in a premium position.

The criticism of Paradox seems to be mostly about value instead of quality. Paradox still makes decent games, they just overcharge for them heavily compared to others of comparable quality. Also the endless DLC model means if you get into a Paradox game, you’re in for hundred+ dollars, in which case I’m going to treat your game as if you’re selling it for $100+ dollars, and well, very little is worth that to me.


Ah, thanks. Broader point taken.

Aye, that’s a bunch of professional critics whose tone will be a far cry from the dumpster fire diatribes of large, vocal minority consumers. I’m confident even Pitchfork wouldn’t fire off ‘KILL YOURSELF’ or ‘WHY ISN’T THIS FREE’, though it appears they did skewer Timberlake in that quote, so…

I think there’s a ‘stress arc’ difference too between releasing an album (or book or movie or other ‘static’ creation) and it standing on its own at birth, and a game (or other software) that will inevitably fall over in various unexpected ways while it’s supported, made more stable and grows. Dealing with entitled juvenile shitheads on top of that ongoing pressure I would expect takes its toll on creators in a way that’s unique to software development. That’s my gut feeling at least and probably why that piece from Morgan Jaffit is doing the rounds.

Anyway, this is all waaay off topic now.


I’m starting to feel bad for Age of Wonders 3. It never asked for all this.


I feel kinda bad about anything I said lending itself to this debate, as I was just kidding around. I am personally adopting an optimistic (cos I love Lennart and co) wait-and-see attitude to their new project.


I’m hoping to dig into Age of Wonders 3 and Endless Legend more this year! I only scratched the surface of them last year and had a great time with both for very different reasons.


I strongly encourage you to start without the Tempest expansion. It introduces a number of new features, some of which can mess considerably with balance and gameplay - and some of the mechanics are particularly frustrating for newer players.


AoW3 has the best tactical battles by far out of any 4X, so that aspect is stressed more than the other Xs. Even though I tend to like less combat focus in 4Xs, it works for AoW3. It’s kinda like the other Xs are there to support the great battles.


I did manage a single 50+ hour campaign with everything enabled without any real difficulties. I’m just cautious that I won’t play many campaigns so don’t want to bank on enabling things in future playthroughs. I liked what I saw of the Tempest sea stuff though. Perhaps my only observation was the Morgawr was a tough adversary compared to the others. That doesn’t really bother me to be honest!

That’s exactly how I saw it! The tactical battles were delicious.


Check again, if you hit add all to your cart for CK2, you’re talking closer to 300 than even 200. Yes there are some music stuff in there but the bundle is definitely over 250. Some of the expansions have questionable quality, not that it’s bad content so much as… did it really improve the game or just add more stuff. I felt AOW had quality and notable additions which added to and imrpoved the game, both times.

I mean there use to be a running joke on Paradox titles, about them releasing a game and everyone waiting a year for them to complete it with DLC and bug fixes. It’s not as if they didn’t earn that rep. Now they have cleaner releases at least so you don’t have as many people saying wait for the real game to release.

Well to be fair, that’s just one article, there were several and not everyone liked his half-time show. You’re not suggesting music doesn’t have a problem with people demanding things for free right… i mean, we’re talking about an industry where you can download their work in seconds and… Napster, torrents…Taylor Swift literally coming out and saying they, musicians, shouldn’t be asked to work for free… or that time every music track was .99 and someone dared break that ceiling.


I know I’m probably alone, but what I’d love to see from Triumph is a new Overlord game.


They would post a 0.0 scored review that is just a video of a monkey peeing in his own mouth though.


But would they take a thread about video games and steer it towards a completely different industry and a link to a monkey peeing in it’s own mouth? Gamers!



Oh wow. Okay, I laughed.

I’m not, no.


We moved on… and I also need to play a lot more AOW3 and EL. Anyway, about the quote, it happens. They have no one to copy from and a million fan requests that aren’t that good of an idea or that easy to implement in an interesting way. Not to mention plenty of people love the satanist horse silliness.
If the absence of dev diaries means CK2 is done, that’s probably for the best, though, there’s only so much torture you can do to a code base.
At the end of the day, if they’d go back to bigger sales after a year or two, there would be no point in nitpicking about their content bundling choices.

Then she should read the contracts she signs and go elsewhere, like many musicians have done for the past decade and a half.


I don’t think you’re familiar with the Apple issue I am talking about; it wasn’t just her. I mean it was all over the news, 3 months no pay, she was speaking for the indies more then the multi millionaires.


Any way we can take the evils of DLC and other discussions somewhere else please?

I usually din’t care when things get off track for a bit but this is getting ridiculous.