Typically, yes. However, that vocal minority have an outsized impact on future sales due to word of mouth. Hence, an outsized level of stress gets associated with them.
Yeah, we’re lucky games even get made given how thankless a task it is to create them. We’re blessed so many great games even get made by smaller studios, given the target audience is one of the worst demographics in the world, in terms of entitlement.
Justin Timberlake would like to have a word with you.
Bravo
Seriously? That’s your entire post? Oh, let me guess. You cut a second paragraph out to sell it as post release DLC. And you’re going to charge $2 for a fucking font pack, aren’t you?
You really are a terrible person. I hope your house dies of cancer and your children get shingles.
Simmer down :)
I think we’ll be in good hands with Triumph. They know the score and I really don’t think their games lend themselves well to the Paradox style of publishing. DLC for story expansion and races should be where it’s at. If it’s AoW4 at all. Which it better be!!!
Morgan Jaffit from Defiant (Hand of Fate) wrote this relevant piece. ‘The cost of doing business is abuse’:
Hmm, I don’t follow!
He’s getting some criticism for his new album, but it’s selling… how exactly is that different from gaming?
Developers and musicians are not entitled to having their services and products purchased. I mean why do developers think they’re not going to get the same abuse others get… it’s not even unique. How much negative feedback do you think he got from his half-time show…?
Cool, so because internet anything creative is subject to toxic abuse.
It’s hardly exclusive to gaming, journalists, musicians, youtubers, actors and many others got toxic feedback. There’s also many who get praise for mediocrity, or get a pass on all sorts of immoral (or even illegal) crap, because success is a great excuse. Then there’s all the times someone is against something for the reasons someone else is for it.
Social media is a mess that shouldn’t be taken too seriously when there’s too many people, just like a conversation at a dinner table. Both fans and critics aren’t going to be objective or helpful, most of the time.
I think what reasonable people can agree on is that we should avoid being aggressive or harassing until very serious lines are crossed, other than that it’s all opinions we can disagree peacefully on. There’s no reason for this thread to go bad because people disagree on whether some DLC is too expensive or not. If there’s an ugly fight to be had, it’s not about Triumph and PDX, IMHO.
Well I’ve seen that grandfather’s funeral article posted at least a dozen times around the gaming sphere now.
The problem is the gaming developers keep posting their challenges at work as if it’s unique to them, as if they’re the only ones with hard jobs, and they’re the only ones who do creative works and face criticism and backlash for it. They certainly are not. It’s not unique to gaming. We all have challenges with work, and the fact is if you deal with the public sometimes the problem is dealing with the public… no matter what industry it is.
We should be able to discuss DLC approaches without hearing that if we repeat DLC concerns or complaints somewhere a developer just had his or her wings ripped off though.
I think Paradox is crossing a line with DLC. I’m not freaking out about it, but I think it’s too much and too often. That doesn’t invalidate concerns about loot boxes, F2P models, or EA titles… it’s just a part of the discussion about DLC. I just would rather not see AOW, assuming that’s the title coming out, follow the same path.
Well said Nesrie.
No one is stopping you from criticizing whatever you want about gaming. And I’m certainly not taking on the job of paradox apologist having never played a single title by them because I can’t be bothered even beginning to sort out WTF is going on with the veritable blizzard of DLC they dump on the world.
But to call out game devs as not the only ones in the line of fire sounds like you’re saying to be subjected to harassment on the internet is just an occupational hazard so tolerate it and shut up, which I find of particular amusement since it’s why I’m actually in this forum, to avoid that very thing.
Much of what passes on the internet in the way of game discussion and criticism is a dumpster fire, so it’s also not terribly surprising to me some game developers took a moment to whine about it.
I think what @Nesrie is saying is that the abuse people in creative professions receive online is a result of being online, rather than a particular hazard of being a game developer. GG and all that crap is terrible, and no one is saying game developers should just quietly suck it up, rather that the Grandfather’s Funeral piece and a lot of other articles wrongly point to online abuse as something unique to gaming.
As example, the following passages would apply to all creative fields. Acting, singing, writing, game development, etc. Heck, you can apply it really to almost anyone that has a public presence online regardless of field that ends up in the crosshairs of one or other terrible group.
For the record, I’m not suggesting online abuse has just started to become an issue in the last year. What I’m drawing attention to here is the normalisation of online abuse — both from the perspective of content creators and from the point of view of the audience. It is now, for a significant part of our audience, the way in which they communicate with creators.
There are those who’d say (rightly) that some level of abuse has always been a part of having a public presence, but it’s clear things have got worse over the last couple of years. I don’t think it’s possible to easily identify a single specific cause, although there’s a clear point where the dam burst.
It’s not just gaming. It’s everywhere.
It’s a hazard of both online , and being in a profession where supply exceeds demand, unless you’re in a premium position.
The criticism of Paradox seems to be mostly about value instead of quality. Paradox still makes decent games, they just overcharge for them heavily compared to others of comparable quality. Also the endless DLC model means if you get into a Paradox game, you’re in for hundred+ dollars, in which case I’m going to treat your game as if you’re selling it for $100+ dollars, and well, very little is worth that to me.
Ah, thanks. Broader point taken.
Aye, that’s a bunch of professional critics whose tone will be a far cry from the dumpster fire diatribes of large, vocal minority consumers. I’m confident even Pitchfork wouldn’t fire off ‘KILL YOURSELF’ or ‘WHY ISN’T THIS FREE’, though it appears they did skewer Timberlake in that quote, so…
I think there’s a ‘stress arc’ difference too between releasing an album (or book or movie or other ‘static’ creation) and it standing on its own at birth, and a game (or other software) that will inevitably fall over in various unexpected ways while it’s supported, made more stable and grows. Dealing with entitled juvenile shitheads on top of that ongoing pressure I would expect takes its toll on creators in a way that’s unique to software development. That’s my gut feeling at least and probably why that piece from Morgan Jaffit is doing the rounds.
Anyway, this is all waaay off topic now.
I’m starting to feel bad for Age of Wonders 3. It never asked for all this.
I feel kinda bad about anything I said lending itself to this debate, as I was just kidding around. I am personally adopting an optimistic (cos I love Lennart and co) wait-and-see attitude to their new project.
I’m hoping to dig into Age of Wonders 3 and Endless Legend more this year! I only scratched the surface of them last year and had a great time with both for very different reasons.