Actually, that sounds more like a random number generator (with influencers) at work, to me.
For anybody else desperately waiting for this to get addressed, a v1.52 beta patch with a tentative fix just went live a few minutes ago on Steam. You’ll have to enable the Open Beta for your copy in order to download it. (In the Steam client, Right-click the Game -> Properties -> Beta tab).
Full 1.52 beta patch notes can be found here. (A whole bunch of other stuff also got fixed/changed/balanced, but I’d consider the existing AI spell casting bug to be a top priority worth pointing out first).
Here’s a warning about this open beta patch for those that play PBEM or Multiplayer games:
If you use the open beta and play PBEM or multiplayer, ALL PLAYERS IN THE GAME MUST ALSO USE THE OPEN BETA! If you use the open beta in a PBEM game, and the next player doesn’t have it, they will not be able to play! If they’re a steam player this isn’t that big a deal, if they’re a GoG player, then they’re out of the game until we release the patch in the next week or so!
Thanks for the update on that. I’ve not turned on beta on this one as yet, but I’m thinking this warrants it.
Halflings now build Prototype Party Robots instead of Golems
PARTY GOLEMS!
My case, sure, but I’m still fairly new to this game. It’s harder to see an RNG explaining rob’s 10 games of failed attempts with rich bribes. Have you seen the AI accept an alliance that you offered?
What use to people put the “Evolve” T1 irregular units? I’m talking about the Draconian unit that can shoot fire or the Elf initiate? I’ve never found those units to be particularly useful, and while it’s cute that they can evolve into a different unit, it’s not like those units are difficult to build on their own and they’re quickly accessible.
With certain upgrades I think you can get pretty close to the ‘evolve’ trigger level at construction. Maybe even reach it. So you build a cavalry and get a recruit Knight right out of the gate? I’ve never stacked medal bonuses that high though.
Yeah, a few times - it’s quite rare. My purely unsubstantiated guess as to what’s going on is the following:
On each turn or upon receiving alliance offer from player:
iif benefits of alliance ≥ detriments of alliance
–> RNG = X
–> if X ≤ (some low percentage)
----> then offer/accept alliance
I think they wanted a low percentage to avoid alliance spamming by the AI, but it then runs into crazy stuff where an alliance is obviously in an AI’s interest but they still thumb their noses at you because reasons/you were the one who asked. Kinda seems like a placeholder mechanic that got missed in QA.
A bonus if they get them, but most aren’t anything to build around. You’ll still be building a ton of them because they’re cheap and fulfill a role.
Some units get really good evolves though. The T1 snakes/spiders turn into nice T3 units. Rogues can research something to let their T1 class unit evolve into a useful unit. Human T2 horses are good units and evolve into T4 knights.
Knights are T3.
And yeah, evolve is great but as a “oh crap that guy hit gold, sweet” more than a comprehensive strategy. Totally worth getting some spiders up in your main stack and protecting them, though; even the T1 babies are pretty good for their level and the T3 queen spiders are awesome.
Yeah, I tried a couple of times, and found them to be a nice occasional bonus but not worth worrying too much about.
Sometimes evolved things keep an ability as well, such as Martyrs becoming Exalted with their Pain ability and the like.
Okay, thanks for all the info about Evolve units.
Back to the Draconians, in what situation would you build those little spitter guys instead of a flamer? Or in the case of the Elves, an initiate instead of a longbowmen? The units just don’t seem very good. Sure, I’m guessing the melee on an initiate is a bit better than a longbowman, but the Elf longbows are just insanely nasty. For the Dracs, flamers have that great AoE attack, etc.
I’m not very good at the game yet, but even when I had a building that provided a boost to irregulars, I still found other units more effective. I just feel like I’m missing something with them.
I spam hatchlings (the spitters) when I’m low on resources but need units fast (mostly for defense in newly acquired cities and the like–or in the extreme early game if I’m buying vassals and heroes left and right). They cost 45/45 gold/prod compared to 70/70 gold/prod for the flamers (which means they’ll also build noticably faster in cities with low production), and they can also be built without a Barracks, which the flamers require (again, mostly useful in smaller cities that haven’t yet had time to build all of the basics, but still need defense). While they might be more situational, they’re useful in a pinch for defense, or even filling out a slot or two in a stack you need to keep moving.
They’ll also evolve, but as discussed above, that’s mostly just a bonus and nothing worth going out of your way to pull off for every unit.
I’m also still learning the game (four games completed, haven’t tried Emperor difficulty or some of the races/classes yet), so I’m not an expert. But I think that your impressions are right – in most cases the irregulars are deliberately weak, and shouldn’t be put in your army if you have better options. But they’re not useless either:
-No prerequisite buildings, so you can produce them even in a newly founded or conquered city as a cheap garrison if you can’t spare production from an established city to crank out a couple of archers.
-Cheap cost. They’re generally about 2/3 of the cost of archers, so if you are cash-strapped and need disposable fodder they’ll do. And if you just want a scout to run around and explore and collect unguarded stuff, there’s no reason to spend more.
-You might have buildings or technologies that give bonuses to irregular units.
But yeah, in general I would rather have an archer in most cases.
Elf longbows are nearly 2x the cost of an initiate at 80g/p. The gold cost isn’t necessarily the problem, but the 80 production cost certainly is. You will not have a city that can 1-turn them for quite awhile. Compare to the initiate at 45g/p, which you can 1-turn in basically any village with a builders hall (25 base + 20 builder’s hall) or any outpost with a single production site (15 + 20 + 10). They also target resistance rather than armor, so they do deceptively more damage than you’d think (since most units have lower resistance than armor). Finally, they have the same flexibility that all single shot units share in that they can use their full movement range and still get full damage where you have to crawl your longbows around.
Similar logic for a hatchling vs. a flamer (40g/p vs 70 g/p). However, it is much much easier to reach the 70 production breakpoint than 80, so hatchlings do “obsolete” faster than initiates. Also note that hatchlings do the same single target damage as flamers, so if you’re not hitting 2+ units with your flamer, 2 hatchlings are capable of matching that.
So they’re definitely useful units even if they’re not really “good” by any stretch. But yeah, the primary reason you want them is because they’re cheap.
Thanks for the info!
The fact that an AI will sometimes not ally, no matter what, has to be a bug. I mean, if I got +3000 rep and a larger army, it should ally. It seems that there is a flag set when the AI is first made. It either will ally or will not. That bug is killing this game for me because it forces me to actually beat down all the other AIs when I have clearly won the game by some earlier point.
I’m also convinced it’s a bug.
Some irregulars are better than others, as well. Orc Spearmen are legitimate units, with their beefy Orc stats, Shield, and War Cry. Human Civic Guards cost half upkeep and can get Throw Net. Halfling Adventurers are really archers with their 3x slingshot attack. Frostling Ice Scapers are made out of tissue paper, but can proc Frozen on their targets and completely turn battles around.
Irregulars generally don’t form the backbone of your armies, no, but…they’re irregulars ;)