3541

The buff already resets when you exit the game. Are they punishing people who don’t complete the game in one sitting?

3542

They’re punishing people who switch skills during any given session, obviously. Also, they’re punishing people who exit the game to farm the same boss again, because apparently - that’s not “fun” in the eyes of Bliz. If people do that - it’s because that’s what they want to do - and in this case, it’s because the “fun” is maximising the chance of getting better gear.

My question is - why are they trying to regulate this?

3543

Only once you’re level 60 and you kill a specific enemy type. It changes the way you think about the endgame a bit. Seems fine to me.

3544

It is an attempt to appease people like you.

3545

That’s nice, but it’s a very strange and inefficient way to go about it. I fear they’ll only end up frustrating “people not like me” - and it’s not going to make much of a difference to me.

3546

Blizzard isn’t aiming to placate anyone; they’re just trying to polish the claws of their positive reinforcements to a mirror sheen. They are going to make so much fucking money on this.

3547

No doubts there - and they certainly need more :)

3548

DKDartagnan, positive reinforcement > negative reinforcement or restrictions. At least when it comes to Blizzard’s game design philosophy.

The original WoW rest XP system cut your XP in half if you played too long. Everyone hated it. The new system rewards you with “bonus” XP if you haven’t played in a while. Everyone loves it. But the two systems are actually identical because they tweaked the leveling rate to stay the same.

3549

Yeah, I really don’t like the fact that a buff disappears after you log out. It sounds like it forces you to keep playing or stay logged in. I don’t have a problem with losing the buff if you respec, but forcing you to keep playing to maintain a benefit does not sound fun.

3550

They’ve stated their goal with the system is: 3 minute runs are too little and should be discouraged, but 2 hour sessions should not be actively encouraged. The buff actually caps out very quickly as is (and it has a timer), so it doesn’t really benefit much to play longer. They said they are discussing the exact cap on the buff.

3551

Positive reinforcement works great if it applies universally. It doesn’t work great if you actually want to do something but you’re discouraged from doing it - because the carrot lessens. This is pretty basic human psychology - to my mind.

The WoW rest system doesn’t punish anyone - because you’ll be rewarded either way. If you keep playing, you’ll level up faster - but if you take a break - you’ll get a mild bonus so as to catch up a bit quicker. Naturally, it’s an illusion to give players the perception that Blizzard are helping people without much time to play - but it works because it’s a bonus that’s always nice to have.

3552

Oh boy, do i love having lag on an essentially single player game because someone at home is downloading/streaming something…

3553

Ah, didn’t realize the buff had a timer. I have no problem with that.

3554

The way the new buff works for end-game (this is only active at level 60):

Here’s how it currently works internally: Rare and Champion packs already have great loot on them. By killing a Rare or Champion pack, not only do you get their loot, but you’ll also receive a buff granting you increased magic find and gold find. However, if you change a skill, skill rune, passive, or leave the game, the buff disappears. As an extra reward, if you kill a boss while this buff is active, you’ll receive extra loot drops from that boss.

And some other info from a small Q&A they did with fansites, it wasn’t posted in the Blizzard forums:

When you say extra loot, do you mean, extra loot. Or do you mean extra loot that is on par with what elite/champs drop. I remember from the article before, bosses do not drop gear that is as good as champs/elites.
They will drop gear as good as champions and elites with this buff (because you have to kill champions and elites to get it, which was the point). With the buff active you’re guaranteed one extra item drop from the boss, and it’s likely that it’ll be 1 item per stack of the buff. Up to X stacks. We don’t know how many it’ll be, probably a handful.

How many stacks will there be if any?
We’re not totally sure but probably a number you can count on one hand.

Do you lose the buff when you die?
It lasts through death currently, and we like it. I know some people will also want it to be a punishment for death, but repair costs are already extremely impactful.

Does the buff splits between players?
Like someone joins after you’ve been killing and they have less stacks? It’s a direct increase to your MF/GF, so it uses the same mechanics.

Do you lose it on disconnect?
There’s a small grace period, similar to WoW where you can get back into the game before your character is actually logged out (ie a timeout), but yes if your character times out you would lose the buff.

What is the Time limit on the stack, if any?
We’re messing with times from about 15 minutes to an hour. We don’t know yet.

Do Stacks get removed after a boss?
We don’t really think it needs to. Your focus is still going to be seeking out champions and rares. If you want to get full stacks, kill a boss, and then try to rush to kill another boss before the buff falls off… have fun? It’s not going to be the most lucrative way to play, so it’s likely a non-issue hypothetical.

So, level 60 characters will start a game to farm uber loot, and choose the spec they want to use for that game. As they run around killing Elite groups, they get the bonus, so they get more uber loot for bosses during that game. Eventually, all those will be dead, or they’ll be out of time. At that point, they can start another game, and respec fully before they start killing again, if they want to try something else out.

It’s a fairly elegant system, especially since it’s set up as all bonuses, no penalties. It allows for full customization between game sessions, but not for switching specs to deal with whatever type of Champion/Rare packs are in that game, since there’s no way to know ahead of time. Of course, if people really want to change specs mid-game, they can; they just won’t get as good of drops for doing so, during level 60 end-game content.

3555

You’ve perfectly described exactly why they’re experimenting with this. They’ve implied that playing through large contiguous chunks of content (even if it is repeat content) is more fun in their eyes then repeatedly killing the same boss. Their new mechanics are intended to encourage that style of play.

A systems designer’s job is to create mechanics such that the most successful path through the game is also the most fun (something that most games fail at). If Blizzard thinks repeating the same boss is not fun and there are other elements of their game that are, then the systems designer’s job is to change the systems such that the optimal play style is a more fun play style. Because, as you point out, people can be pretty stupid. If they see something that’s fun to do and something that’s efficient to do, they’ll often do the efficient thing and then complain that it’s not fun. Or they’ll just leave the game when the monotony and lack of reward for what they’re doing sets in. A systems designer’s job is to avoid that.

3556

Man, you are looking for discouragement and punishment too much, even when it’s not there. :)

Consider this situation. You played a little, you’ve got some buff going and then you encounter a Champion pack that gives you troubles. You can do either:

  1. Do your best, use some pots, whatever, and kill the pack. Your reward: a bit more loot from the buff. And you move on.
  2. Go back to town, re-spec, come back and kill the pack. Your reward: saved some pots, some frustration and probably time. And you move on.
  3. Start a new game. Your reward: you avoid the whole thing. And you restart the segment.

Out of these three options, option 1 is the hardest, so this behaviour is rewarded with a bit more loot. Options 2 and 3 are copouts to a various degree and have lesser rewards to them. Well, option 3 doesn’t really have a reward, you just restart.

See, no punishment, just rewards.

Some behaviours get more reward because, well, it’s a game and it’s kind of the point to figure out the most rewarded behaviours. Otherwise, if whatever you do, you get the same chance for a reward, it might as well be just a slot machine.

3557

There is plenty of evidence that people will do whatever they are incentivised to do, even if it is terribly boring. Eventually monotony of doing the same 3 minute sequence 1000 times in a row will overcome the sense of reward from getting new gear and people will quit or start a new character.

However, as you say, the only reason people subject themselves to this monotony is that it’s the most efficient way to get the gear rewards. But there is no reason for Blizzard to reward monotony. Playing over long stretches of the game, you encounter elites with new combinations of ability, new challenges and a wider variety of bosses. Instead of doing one 3-minute stretch 1000 times, you can have 20 different 30-minute stretches (all roughly of equivalent reward) that you do 5 times each.

Does that seriously not sound any better to you?

3558

You aren’t discouraged from respeccing between sessions.

You ARE discouraged from respeccing during a session, which is what they want. They’ve stated in interviews that they don’t want players to be swapping out skills for every new mob they run across. That’s a design goal, and presumably one you agree with!

Also the WoW rest system does punish players who stick to leveling one alt instead of leveling two alts at a time. At least it feels that way to me. So it’s not 100% upside feeling, even if technically it’s all bonuses.

3559

Well, this system at least demonstrates to me that they don’t want you constantly fiddling with your hotbar. I don’t know if it’s enough, but it’s a step in the right direction for my tastes, for sure.

3560

Exactly. If I wanted to fiddle with my hotbar, I’d just as soon stay in the bathtub.