6221

As it currently stands, you can’t really obtain gear in Hell to “gear yourself up” for Inferno. You can farm money and hit the AH, though, which is what I’ve been forced to do at this point.

6222

Yeah, good points. I just don’t want to farm multiple millions just to be able to progress. I would like at least a chance at a good piece to drop even if it is really rare. These changes will satisfy me just perfect as I can take out most groups of specials in Act I Inferno now.

6223

Not sure what class you’re playing, but my brother and I, as a barbarian and wizard respectively, beat hell Diablo and progressed into inferno last night.

Neither one of us have ever touched the auction house. I started inferno with about 38K hp and around 8k damage, he was around 30K hp and 7.5k damage. We were both expecting to get streamrolled, but surprisingly we managed to make it all the way through the skeleton king, both receiving several upgrades. Some of the champion packs we came up against were damn hard, and we certainly died plenty, but neither one of us ever found it overly frustrating. At the end of the night my damage had gone up to around 13.5k, while my life had dropped down to 33k (but I made up for it with some nice extra resists). Both of us felt much more powerful than when we entered act inferno, and it felt great.

Also, the patch changes look fantastic. The only change I’m not crazy enthused about is the nerf to attack speed, simply because really high attack speed is fun, but I understand the need for the change.

6224

Inferno Act 1 is a cakewalk compared to Act 2. I one-shot the skelly king in Hell gear - as I’m sure a lot of people did. The packs, however, took a lot more work and became gradually easier. Act 2 is when the challenge gets hard enough to make all this clear to everyone.

These patch comments are a pretty clear indicator that Blizzard themselves feel it’s inappropriate that the highest level loot is only available in Act 3 and 4.

I think smoothing the challenge curve is wise - but I hope they don’t make the overall challenge less demanding. I think it’s the only thing going for the game in terms of longevity.

6225

I dont like these changes.

First, who cares about making Act 2 inferno easier? this just move the wall from Act 2 to Act 3. It don’t remove any wall, and the wall is there for a motive. Then modyfing existing items is a NO-NO, and nerfing some stats will make boring items even more boring. Balance is a fucking stupid idea in something suposedly designed to be fun, not fair.

I really hate the idea of making dyiing more expensive. Because getting money is not fun, and because I am not a very skilled player with a easy-mode class. So I die a lot. What this promise change have for me is way more grind, less money to get the gear my hardmode-class need. So this will favour these that don’t die, and penalty these that die a lot. It help winners and penalty losers. It also favour more survavility and make so people avoid risks. But risk are fun, and playing with 1% life and surviving can be really fun.

I am playing diablo3 waiting for the next cool game. Has soon a good game release that can ocupy my coop hours, I will abandon diablo3 soo fast that the servers will crash.

6226

Heh, I know what you mean, Teiman. I have spent many a night with a net zero gain in gold due to dying and potion purchases.

I am also okay with Act II being a big jump in difficulty, but would at least want to have a chance to tackle it with gear drops I get myself in Act I if I am patient enough. Currently it doesn’t sound like that is possible for most people. I also play a barbarian, which may be more dependent on gear to progress.

6227

I think the point is that Act II should be a ramp up in difficulty, not a brick wall of asskickery.

6228

Heh, forget the Skeleton King, I can kill the Butcher under 10 seconds with my Barbarian, but struggle on even some of the mobs in Act II. And this is with all resistances above 600, armor around 8k, 40k HP, and 20k DPS. Breaking that brick wall on my character will cost me a fortune on the AH. That’s just not right.

6229

Yeah, Act 2 isn’t the same game as Act 1 at the moment. Without having ludicrous gear, it basically becomes an exercise in never getting hit. It’s part of the reason you see so many DH guides advocating running high dps blue gear, because the incoming damage in Act 2 and beyond is so high it’s not worth trying to gear to handle it, and instead you just learn to kite flawlessly.

6230

I’ve had the same struggles in A2 as everyone else, but I’m still really enjoying the game. Running Hell w/ JMR was a blast, and I’ve enjoyed the couple times we’ve done Inferno together as well. Having a tank available changes everything w/ my wizard.

6231

That has to do with melee attacks though. I understand why they did that even though I dislike it.

I’m talking about one category of projectiles vs another.

6232

Exactly. And if you’re a melee class you might as well not show up without a full set of gear from Act3+. In the time it takes to do a swing animation you’ll die to white mobs. God help you if a champ pack shows up.

The level of difficulty from Act4 Hell to Act1 Inferno was about right. It was rough, but you could get better at the game/gear up and it was doable. Once you have Act1 on farm and can practically faceroll through it you should be able to start taking on Act2, but you can’t. You’ll get destroyed by white enemies in seconds. Farming Act1 gives maybe one small upgrade for every 3-4 runs (5 NV, Warden, Butcher + random basement spawn). Odds are that upgrade is for another class that you’ll try to sell on the AH so you can buy something. Only it wont sell for crap because its Act1 gear and Act3/4 gear costs in the millions. And you need that gear to survive in Act2.

Once Inferno isn’t insane its time to go back and look at DH/Wizard survivability in Inferno. Not to mention DH dps. That people are playing with 14k health and 140k dps is just stupid.

6233

The Sharpshooter passive tends to exaggerate DH stat sheet DPS - though I’m uncertain what the actual effective DPS is for other classes than the Monk.

100K+ DPS is definitely within reach for my Monk - if I had ilvl 63 weapons - and that’s effective DPS - not just a maximum, though it takes active buffs to attain that. Even in my so-so gear, I have around 40K effective DPS - and I’m using a shield and a relatively defensive setup.

But Demon Hunters don’t rely on defensive stats to the same degree as other classes (certainly not the barb/monk), because of their fantastic smokescreen/preparation/vault skills and the separate discipline resource.

I think it’s by design that they’re meant to kill things faster than others as a means of survival. The problem is that DPS will always be sexier than everything else - and coupled with not needing gear at the same level, people are bound to roll up Demon Hunters when they hit a wall. This will lead to a nerf - no matter what Blizzard claims. Why? Because buffing the other classes won’t get people back to them once they’ve rolled a Demon Hunter - so a nerf is almost inevitable in the near future.

6234

I think it’s cool that it’s an option. Now that they’re bumping up repair costs, it may not be the most efficient. High risk, high reward. That being said, the epeen wavers usually are displaying their DPS with Sharpshooter, which is very misleading.

6235

Thing is, its not an option for anyone else. No other class can run with basically no Vit and all Primary Stat. Wizards could and they got beat down with the nerf bat for it, but DHs are still doing it. The class needs more survivability options that aren’t totally reliant on SS/Prep. I mean they have zero damage reduction passives. But they also have insanely high damage increasers (15%/15%/20%/guaranteed crit). I’d say toss out archery and give them something that reduces incoming damage/increases resists.

And honestly, I’d rather SS didn’t even exist at this point. Vault was more fun and if it broke snares and could get over obstacles I’d use that instead, but since it doesn’t you’re basically forced into using SS or you’ll instantly die to wallers and jailers.

Theres so many “must have” abilities in the game that need to be addressed. Not by neccessarily nerfing those abilities, but making other abilities viable in the role. I think every class has 2-3 abilities/passives that are non-options. You take them, or you die to everything. Or they’re so good its stupid not to take them (ie Archery with a Bow).

6236

I agree, I actually feel like the entire DH skillset needs to have a serious balance pass done over it. There’s virtually no point in most of the ranged attacks other than Elemental Arrow (a case could be made for Impale) and the only real survivability option other than SS… and to rely on SS, you need Preparation.

Part of the problem is that the DH seems to be build around the idea of kiting/avoidance, but the wheels fall off in Inferno. In terms of enjoyment, my DH probably peaked in Nightmare. Caltrops, Entangling shot, Fan of Knives and the like remained very useful abilities. I enjoyed using the 3s rune for Smoke Screen in conjunction with Multishot(Suppression Fire). The 3s duration gave me time to maybe launch a couple Multishot volleys and recharge some of the Discipline cost and as such, Preparation wasn’t mandatory.

In Inferno? You can pretty much throw snares out the window as they’re no longer effective against champions/elites, so there goes Caltrops, Entangling Shot, Fan of Knives, Frost Arrow, etc. Vault is only useful for getting out of fire/poison, but with the way mechanics work it doesn’t avoid getting hit and therefore is of limited use. Any abilities which require you to be anywhere other than long range as well as those that require you to be stationary are also no longer viable, so there goes chakrams, fan of knives, rapid fire.

Some real easy number changes I’d like to see them make are a reduction in hatred costs for Multishot and Cluster Arrow and a sizable bump to Shadow Power’s effectiveness and duration - make it a real alternative to Smoke Screen.

Mechanically, Vault needs to be reworked. It needs to trigger an invulnerability as you leap and while the leap is taking place, otherwise it’s not going to get used. The Sentry turret… just needs help. There’s a couple runes that seem like OK ideas (Chain, Aid Station) but the range of both needs to be drastically increased. No demon hunter is going to stay nearly stationary next to their turret in order to get a 1% regen… not when one hit means the end of you. Rapid Fire also needs to be looked at, because staying stationary to less damage than Impale does not work with current game mechanics at higher difficulties.

Anyway, hopefully many of these skills are looked at in 1.1. If I can actually survive a hit or two in Inferno on my DH after the 1.03 changes have been made, which might open up more skill options, but right now there’s very few viable builds and you might as well ignore survivability for DPS. It’s pretty boring, though, so I’m going to level up some other characters and dink around with my L60 Wizard until then.

6237

The Dodge thing is really fustrating. I keep it around because I LIKE it so, but that lack of invulnerability makes it much less reliable than SS when you must avoid or die in one hit. SS in turn probably should have been nerfed in a way other than it was, as the new duration is stupidly short against some scenarios. I’d rather it had something like a drastically increasing cost when chained, but with the old duration. Prep is just a skill that’s asking to be “abused.”

But yeah, until they do a balance pass on Inferno in general, it’s not really worth digging too much into balancing individual skills. The combo of 1-2 hit kills and hugely diminished CC is making Inferno behave in a way radically different from the game up to that point, and not just in a higher difficulty sense.

6238

Yeah, if they got the game a bit more balanced, I wouldn’t mind seeing Prep just get tossed for something more interesting. And for that matter a cooldown on SS might fix some of its issues as well. I agree on Shadow Power, it has real potential especially with the 65% rune, but SS is always going to win considering how often you hit scenarios where even 65% less damage isn’t enough. And I totally agree on Vault needing invulnerablilty. I pretty much stopped using it in Hell since it never saved me from bad situations. Vaulting away from Bad Stuff usually just got me killed by it anyway.

I’m sure they’ll sort it all out, but it throws the game’s economy completely out of wack. It also makes balancing a lot trickier since you have people getting things they normally couldn’t because people are brute forcing content they shouldn’t be able to. It all becomes a vicious circle that can really only be broken with substantial changes to some classes.

6239

I can’t even imagine the level of forum implosion/explosion when they nerf something post real money AH…

6240

I’ve been stocking up on popcorn and beer for reading the forums when that happens.