All good demons go to... um... sequel? - Diablo 3 Announced

[DeepT]

When I logged into BNet to check on this updating your profile thing, it told me my account was suspended for suspicious activity. I had to re-set my password in order to enable it. After answering some security questions it sent me another email to verify my identity and upon getting that and clicking on the link, it took me to a screen to change my password, which I did. Then I could log into BNet proper again.

[RobotPants]

And you’re absolutely sure you went to the actual bnet site? That seems weird.

[KevinC]

Yea, i’ve seen dozens of scams with that. Make sure the URL is what it LOOKS like it is. I’d go browse directly to the battle.net site and change your password just in case.

[Jason_Cross]

But my point is, was, and remains that whatever technical behind the scenes differences they may have, the negative end result is the same. And they did not need to do it that way.

I guess what I’m trying to say is “they did not need to do it that way” does not mean that what they did is build a single-player game with always-online DRM.

They could have built the game so all the game logic runs on your PC, and character files are saved on your PC, and if you want to play multiplayer they facilitate connections and check your saves or even save things online. Similar to what they did with Diablo 2. They could have even built the AH and friends lists and stuff with that sort of setup. I think it’s much harder, maybe even impossible, to really prevent any sort of item duping or anything that way, though.

The only way to actually make the items and gold in the game “trustworthy” is to have the game basically run on their servers, with your client for access.

Now, for people who want to play the game by themselves and don’t care about friends lists, chat, auction houses, trading, or any of that, clearly that seems like some “they didn’t have to do.” It seems like they could have made the game so that you have separate multiplayer characters that access an online game run mostly on their servers with a dumb untrustworhtly client, while also building a client that can run the whole game in a solo offline mode (with separate characters if necessary).

The point I’ve been trying to make all along is to say that Blizzard obviously did not choose to do that. And I am 100% fine with people being bothered by that. My only complaint is with the gamers who say they just slapped an always-only DRM requirement on their game. It seems really clear to me that the “always online” part comes purely from a game design choice to have untrustworthy clients and the whole game essentially run in the cloud, much like Guild Wars or WoW or whatever.

[Mordrak]

The point I’ve been trying to make all along is to say that Blizzard obviously did not choose to do that. And I am 100% fine with people being bothered by that. My only complaint is with the gamers who say they just slapped an always-only DRM requirement on their game. It seems really clear to me that the “always online” part comes purely from a game design choice to have untrustworthy clients and the whole game essentially run in the cloud, much like Guild Wars or WoW or whatever.

I wouldn’t call it a game design choice, it’s more a technical design and monetization decision.

If people are playing offline, how are they going to use the RMT AH? Who cares about duped items, unless you’re trying to sell those items for real money or using them as carrots to keep people paying a monthly fee (raiding)? I’m sure anti-cheating measure played a significant role in their decision making, but I would argue it’s not for game design decisions. SC2 is designed as an e-sport. Anti-cheating matters there because it undermines the integrity of the sport. Diablo 3 is built for e-commerce, which cheating undermines their fee structure.

[Panda]

Just an FYI: There is a new version of the system survey program that Blizzard wants you to download, run, and submit so they get your system specs. You have to run the new version to be eligible for the Diablo beta.

Whoa, thanks for the heads-up on that. I would have had no idea.

[Hanacker]

This is something that’s changed over time with Guild Wars. At launch, the bots had ok AI and alright abilities. I don’t think you could fill a party with bots either at launch. Each player was limited to bringing two bots iirc. Party size is 6 right? You might have been able to complete the game with bots, but groups of human players were the primary design consideration given the state of the bots and their functionality.

…

I know Prophecies had AI party members at launch, and it looks like party size is 8 not 6. I mis-rememebred. I’m pretty sure there was a limit to AI party members at launch, but perhaps I’m mis-remembering that too. But the bolded section implies that Prophecies was originally designed with human players in mind in groups and Heroes (evolving the hencmen system) changed that focus.

Nah, in the original Guild Wars campaign you could fill a party with 7 bots and do missions. The game was definitely beatable solo but the last couple missions were pretty hard. Regardless, I’d agree that the game was originally balanced around a party of multiple PCs, but has gradually gotten more solo-friendly over the years.

[DeepT]

And you’re absolutely sure you went to the actual bnet site? That seems weird.

Yea, i’ve seen dozens of scams with that. Make sure the URL is what it LOOKS like it is. I’d go browse directly to the battle.net site and change your password just in case.

I googled battlenet and went to the site that way. It looked real. Its the site that told me my account account was suspended. Its us.battle.net, right? If not, I am screwed. What I am worried about is the suspicious activity of my account that got it blocked. All I had to do was change my password to unlock it, which is an odd resolution to an account accused of suspicious activity.

[malkav11]

I guess what I’m trying to say is “they did not need to do it that way” does not mean that what they did is build a single-player game with always-online DRM.

They could have built the game so all the game logic runs on your PC, and character files are saved on your PC, and if you want to play multiplayer they facilitate connections and check your saves or even save things online. Similar to what they did with Diablo 2. They could have even built the AH and friends lists and stuff with that sort of setup. I think it’s much harder, maybe even impossible, to really prevent any sort of item duping or anything that way, though.

The only way to actually make the items and gold in the game “trustworthy” is to have the game basically run on their servers, with your client for access.

Now, for people who want to play the game by themselves and don’t care about friends lists, chat, auction houses, trading, or any of that, clearly that seems like some “they didn’t have to do.” It seems like they could have made the game so that you have separate multiplayer characters that access an online game run mostly on their servers with a dumb untrustworhtly client, while also building a client that can run the whole game in a solo offline mode (with separate characters if necessary).

The point I’ve been trying to make all along is to say that Blizzard obviously did not choose to do that. And I am 100% fine with people being bothered by that. My only complaint is with the gamers who say they just slapped an always-only DRM requirement on their game. It seems really clear to me that the “always online” part comes purely from a game design choice to have untrustworthy clients and the whole game essentially run in the cloud, much like Guild Wars or WoW or whatever.

And I’m saying that if it looks like online DRM, walks like online DRM, and quacks like online DRM, it doesn’t much matter if it’s actually a duck. The result is the same. I honestly don’t understand why the Diablo II model didn’t already resolve this issue, but even if I were convinced that this more aggressive model were necessary on that front, I don’t believe that prevention of cheating or prevention of piracy are worth the consequences that forcing an online connection to proprietary company servers brings to the table. (And that would be a pretty tough sell, I might add, when Blizzard’s own word on the matter is that they apparently felt we end users were too stupid to be able to choose between a permanently offline character or a permanently online character in character creation, not that having the former option was detrimental to security.)

[RobotPants]

I think you’re vastly overstating the consequences of having the game always online.

[Uncle_Larry]

Is there any righteous indignation over the lack of LAN play still burning or have we shaved our necks of that one?

[Hanacker]

Is there any righteous indignation over the lack of LAN play still burning or have we shaved our necks of that one?

I think that overlaps with the indignation over no offline mode.

[malkav11]

I think you’re vastly overstating the consequences of having the game always online.

How are any of the consequences I’ve mentioned not enabled by having the game always online?

[Uncle_Larry]

I think that overlaps with the indignation over no offline mode.

The omission of a mode I’ll never miss is a small price to pay for the inclusion of a useful trading mechanism. So fuck ALL those guys, mang.

[KevinC]

I googled battlenet and went to the site that way. It looked real. Its the site that told me my account account was suspended. Its us.battle.net, right? If not, I am screwed. What I am worried about is the suspicious activity of my account that got it blocked. All I had to do was change my password to unlock it, which is an odd resolution to an account accused of suspicious activity.

Ok great, as long as you manually went to us.battle.net instead of clicking off of something like http://us.battle.net you should be OK!

[instant0]

Ill have to do that when I got in home. In other news, my BNET account has been suspended until I changed my password, which I did.

What I want to know, was there some general, “everyone change your password” thing in the pass I missed? I get so many wow / battle net account letters even though I have not had an active WoW account for years, I figured they are all just scams and delete them. Maybe it did come through.

With all the password phishing/stealing going on I just got into a habit of changing some of those passwords every few months anyway, or whenever someone I know (or in my guild(s)) are 0wned.

[Hanacker]

I got an e-mail from sea.battle.net telling me to click on a link to verify my account. I thought it was a scam at first but I guess it just means that someone in Asia used my e-mail to set up a battle.net account?

Edit: Apparently someone named “zhang”.

[Tony_M]

Is there any righteous indignation over the lack of LAN play still burning or have we shaved our necks of that one?

Thats why Blizzard announced all these controversial things at once. Because theres a limit to how much air time any individual grievance is going to get. One of the things that disappointed me from the gameplay videos is that Blizzard seems to have backed down from the more colorful early vids and made the visuals more monochrome. But I haven’t posted on it because the banning of mods offends me more.

[Phydeaux]

I got an e-mail from sea.battle.net telling me to click on a link to verify my account. I thought it was a scam at first but I guess it just means that someone in Asia used my e-mail to set up a battle.net account?

Edit: Apparently someone named “zhang”.

This happened to me last month. Same name (zhang) and everything. The account was for my real name, too. I had to call Blizzard about it and get confirmation, which they provided.

[Chris_Nahr]

I wouldn’t call it a game design choice, it’s more a technical design and monetization decision.

If people are playing offline, how are they going to use the RMT AH? Who cares about duped items, unless you’re trying to sell those items for real money or using them as carrots to keep people paying a monthly fee (raiding)? I’m sure anti-cheating measure played a significant role in their decision making, but I would argue it’s not for game design decisions. SC2 is designed as an e-sport. Anti-cheating matters there because it undermines the integrity of the sport. Diablo 3 is built for e-commerce, which cheating undermines their fee structure.

That’s an excellent point. With an offline mode, offline players can hack their save files to acquire new items. Without an offline mode, players who want items they didn’t find must trade for them… possibly in the auction house, with real money and a nice cut for Blizzard. That’s a great business incentive not to have an offline mode, aside from piracy prevention.