1861

I think he was trying to say that no matter what poll like, they are all going to play it. And much of that is probably true.

1862

I don’t think it’s right to call the poll “incorrect”. It’s better to say “it’s a snapshot of a particular group’s feelings pre-release”. I think it’s true that for this group the post-release breakdown is likely to be significantly different. And possibly different from the larger D3 population’s views. It’s a pretty irrelevant poll.

1863

If you plan to use the AH, over time, you will end up paying a second time (technically, a second, third, and likely fourth time for each sale) to play. You may end up paying out of profits on item sales, but you will technically end up paying.

1864

But you won’t be paying “additional money”, which is how the poll answer reads.

1865

You can’t have a lottery that rewards prizes with cash value and say it isn’t gambling because there isn’t a direct cash payout.

They may be able to able to claim they aren’t that different from amusement centers where you put tokens in a machine, press a button, and get a prize, and get an “amusement gambling” or “game of skill” exemption, but if people start making serious money from this that may not fly.

1866

That’s more of a semantic issue. We’re also assuming the best case scenario here, that someone can use their first few free sales to setup enough of a fund and manage enough successful sales that they do end up not having to directly pay out of pocket.

There will be some subset of users that will end up paying additional money, even if they only wish to buy gold to bypass the inflated grind due to inflated gold prices on the gold AH or because they are otherwise unsuccessful in the RMT AH.

If you want to argue they can just ignore the AH, that’s fine, but that’s not what I took from Bleedthefreak’s criticism.

1867

It’s not a semantic issue. I may use the real money auction house, but I will not invest my own money into. I may use money someone else put into the system, but no money shall be coming out of my pocket. Ever.

1868

Assuming you’re successful. Given a normal curve, there will be a subset of users who initially aren’t.

Edit: But you never plan on cashing out a transaction? All the RMT sales you make will stay in your BNET account? Will you only deal in gold if your BNET account money runs out? There are several situations, where it could very well be even semantically true, you end up paying out of pocket to post sales on the AH.

1869

I might leave a bit in to play with and cash out the rest. And if the game ends up being balanced so that it isn’t fun without spending real money on gear I’ll stop playing unless it’s one of the greatest game ever. I’m pretty casual at this point, though, so I’m probably not really the target audience for the system.

1870

That’s fine, but at that point, you’ve stopped playing. You’re not playing a game you’ve already bought, which fits in that category.

1871

I’m in wait and see mode, which isn’t really an option on the poll.

1872

Hmm?

I looted an item -> I’m successful!

I just want an easy way to trade for items. In D2, I did a lot of trading but it was annoying trying to come up with currencies. Stones of Jordan were a silly hack. PGems and runes were a little better but still left a lot to be desired. Trading against an external currency makes lots of sense. It has a set value that won’t be affected by in-game inflation, etc.

So I’ll play until I loot Uber Loot of Uberness For Some Other Class and then I’ll trade it on the AH. I’ll trade it for cash and then I’ll use that cash to get an Uber Loot of Uberness for My Class. And I’ll trade in my PGem’s (or whatever their equivalent is, etc.) to save up for nice items as well.

None of that requires me to ever put money into the system. Basically I see myself doing exactly what I would do before to try and get all the gear I want for a specific build. I will be trading items for some arbitrary currency then trading that currency for other items that I actually want. If I want to fast-track things I’ll be able to throw some of my actual money into the game instead of earning credit by selling my own stuff. Of course I could do that in D2 as well, it was just more of a pain in the ass. I won’t because it’s more interesting to me to earn stuff by playing than to simply buy stuff.

1873

Again, that’s fine. I was just pointing out that Bleedthefreak’s criticism isn’t entirely accurate. Actually, at this point, being able to sell items on the AH is the only thing that has me interested in D3.

None of the classes I’ve seen really appeals to me. The art style isn’t bad, but doesn’t grab me, and I don’t know if it’s true, but info leaked earlier this year by a supposed QA tester doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in the final product.

But I’ve been using Mturk occasionally to make some money, and D3 could be a decent substitute for that.

1874

It costs money to post items, both in listing, successful sale, and cashing out. If someone’s initial free sales are unsuccessful or are too low to sustain their AH activity, they will have to pay out of pocket to continue to use the RMT AH. That will happen to a subset of players.

1875

Only if they’re idiots.

There’s no reason to think that it will be at all difficult to sell items at or just below market value and start building credit. Nor is it a matter of having to get an uber loot, at least if this is anything like D2. Lots of items will have at least some value and the AH looks like it will replace D2 trade chat but with a lot less hassle. Trade in the shit you don’t want and go grab some stuff you do want. Throw money in if and only if you want to pay to accelerate completing your build.

1876

I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. Bleedthefreak’s comment wasn’t, “only idiots will have to pay additional money.”

I’m not sure games that monetarily punish idiots is necessarily where I want my hobby to go. Given the hobby and the fact millions of people will be playing, there will be plenty of idiots that will need to pay. Heck, regularly on this forum, people refer to most other people playing online games as idiots.

Idiots may even make up a majority of the game’s users!

1877

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what his comment was.

And you’re response is like saying, “well technically they’re paying their ISP to access the AH, so like they’re totally paying, dude”. It’s an irrelevant nitpick. I see nothing that makes me think I’ll have to pay to use the AH just to do the trading that I used to have to do with D2 trade chat or on various trade forums.

1878

Er, I don’t see why not. It’s about being smart with what you’re selling/buying just like anything else. I don’t get the punishment angle.

1879

No it wasn’t, because it’s assuming that every single person in that 35.2% would not have to pay additional money, or there was no chance they would (ie, they don’t understand how the AH works).

And you’re response is like saying, “well technically they’re paying their ISP to access the AH, so like they’re totally paying, dude”.

No it’s not, since Blizzard is actually charging money. It’s a statistical reality that some users (probably including some of those in that 35.2%) will have to pay additional money to use the AH and not in some inane, “They have to pay the ISP” way. They will end up paying money to Blizzard to continue to use some functionality of the game. Heck, it will probably even happen to people who don’t think it will happen to them. Most people don’t like to think of themselves as idiots.

I wasn’t arguing whether it would happen to you personally or not.

1880

The fact that 35% of people (who took that poll) think they’ll have to pay money to use the RMAH doesn’t mean they are idiots. It’s perfectly possible they just don’t understand what it is, and the whole thing is a failure of Blizzard to adequately explain the feature.