No one said the vast majority of guns are used in crime. That’s a red herring. Rather, the question is how many guns in the US are used for the purposes that you mentioned?
The reality in the US is that the vast majority of guns are stockpiled without being used for hunting or sport. They are held by people with little or no training. Or even worse, they’re not held since so many get stolen. Regulation does not equal confiscation. Rather, I would hope that guns only be in the possession of those with training and an understanding of their risks and legitimate uses. That is not the picture of gun ownership in America, today.
jpinard
2868
Citizens don’t need AR-15’s. How many times do automatic weapons need to be used in mass shootings before something is done to regulate “WHO” gets to have them? Many people will cite the same statistics time after time and say “it’s not so bad”. So what is the break even point when things are bad enough? Mass slayings every month with an AR-15 or automatic weapon? Every week? Thousands dead from them instead of a hundred? Tens of thousands?
We need a license to drive and people keep citing the 2nd amendment to be a catch-all for anything that goes pew pew pew. But light machine guns were not used when the Constitution was written. Neither were cars. But I bet if the founding fathers had a choice, then the amendment right after the 2nd would be “the right to own and drive a car”. So if that was in the Constitution would that mean no one needs a license nor training like guns?
The founding fathers didn’t single out horses, the car of the day. A telling omission when considering how important firearms were considered by the founding fathers.
I’m pretty sure AR-15’s aren’t automatic, as automatic weapons are illegal in the US. True they can be modified as such, but that is already illegal. So no not everything that goes pew pew pew is legal. The latest shooting was conducted with shotgun and pistols. There are contradictory reports of whether an attempt was actually made, but the latest shooter was prevented from purchasing an AR-15.
By definition, nearly all of them. Those are the only legal uses for a firearm.
The reality in the US is that the vast majority of guns are stockpiled without being used for hunting or sport. They are held by people with little or no training. Or even worse, they’re not held since so many get stolen.
Why is owning multiple firearms stockpiling? Stockpile is also a loaded word, it implies an intent and in this case you attach a negative connotation to it. Why? Further, why is owning multiple firearms threatening? Is that a danger to society?
To your point about theft, only 10 to 15 percent of guns used in a crime are stolen.
I would hope that guns only be in the possession of those with training and an understanding of their risks and legitimate uses.
The NRA offers great training programs actually, they’re on the forefront of that issue. Accidents do happen, and we could always do with better training but that’s an issue we can certainly address.
Automatic weapons are for all purposes, illegal. A limited number of pre-ban weapons exist in the secondary market, but they require extensive background checks and they command extraordinary prices. Think twenty thousand dollars or more. The AR-15s on the market are actually semi-automatic.
Mass shootings are also uncommonly rare, and have only grown less frequent over the last fifty years. They may be dramatic, and horrible, but they are rare events.
jpinard
2872
Hmmm, the story I read said he went in with an AR-15 strapped to his back and unloaded it on his victims.
Early reports are often wrong, that’s true in any tragedy.
The shooter was actually carrying an 870 Express. The store refused to sell him an AR-15, he was not a Virginia resident and per Virginia law he was ineligible to purchase one. He recovered the pistols from two of the men he shot.
The founders were worried about government tyranny, and concentrating too much power in the hands of the few. They believed that militias would serve as a check against that, just as they provided a potent defense against foreign threats.
They were wrong about militias of course, they performed badly against well trained regulars - but that was the period, and they were high on the cool aid.
Militias, like all military units, had improving performance as they gained experience. This can be seen in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. The Mexican-American Wars also showed militias to be useful from the onset.
I agree about special importance placed in firearms you detail in the first part.
That’s nonsensical to the point of being unaddressable.
If an untrained person keeps multiple guns around without any purpose other than a vague feeling of future use in self-defense, is that not stockpiling? If there is no intent, at all, then how is that good? As to why it isn’t good for society, see point below on theft and also accidents.
You think that’s a good statistic?
Do you actually have statistics or other hard information on what percentage of gun owners this is? I’d bet there is a positive correlation between using guns and owning multiple guns, which kinda bites into your ‘untrained’ bit.
jpinard
2878
And here folks, is the future the NRA wants for us all: http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/268289/14/Enraged-drivers-shoot-kill-each-other
Though this isn’t Florida or Texas, what happens when everyone in American is declaring “stand your ground” because everyone is carrying guns?
ShivaX
2879
All fucking illegal, thanks for not knowing what you’re talking about.
Once?
Seriously, if you people are going to just make up shit its beyond fucking stupid.
Automatic weapons are insanely regulated and basically never used in any crimes, especially mass shootings. Stop pretending some movie you saw is fucking reality.
Ah yes, so nobody in the NRA is calling for them to be legal, right, ShivaX?
“Semi”-auto weapons are also not bolt-action rifles or shotguns, for that matter.
TimJames
2881
The future is now, Jeff. Michigan became shall-issue in 2001. Many other states are the same way.
Though this isn’t Florida or Texas, what happens when everyone in American is declaring “stand your ground” because everyone is carrying guns?
They will go to jail, because the media has made them think they have more right to use a gun than the law actually allows. It’s a shame. Add that to the list of topics for Ms. Jenkins’s 6th grade firearms law and safety course.
TimJames
2882
You may have missed my earlier educational sessions. There was some debate about this, but the best way to think of the NRA is supporting the status quo. They have become a little more aggressive lately. But deregulating auto weapons is still fully within Ron Paul and GOA territory. Not something to be anxious about.
Why do you put semi in quotes? Semi-automatic rifles have the same sort of firing mechanism as a pistol, one pull one shot. Are pistols “semi”-auto as well? There actually are semi-automatic shotguns, I believe part of Colorado’s gun control push as to ban them. You are certain right bout bolt action rifles as they are, well, bolt action and therefore not the same by definition.
ShivaX
2884
No one in all the shit they keep sending to my house has said it. And trust me I have a lot of shit from them, I think my dad was subscribed to every single gun magazine/NRA thing in the history of ever.
I just ask that you debate/discuss in good faith and stop making things up. Which you seem incapable of doing on this subject, which caused me to ignore you for almost a year. You can believe what you want and you can fight from your position. What you can’t do is just make shit up. It’s not okay when Fox News does it, it’s not okay when you do it. Don’t do it. Be genuine or don’t participate.
I’m pretty sure ShivaX is right about the NRA’s position. In the research I’ve had to do on the issue for my work I haven’t seen the NRA lobby on, issue ads on, or otherwise try to push for a repeal of the automatic weapons ban. NRA is basically pro status quo while Gun Owners of America is for decreased gun restrictions.
I will also say that Starlight is exactly right about how the NRA is seen by a lot of people regarding automatic weapons. One of the reasons NRA is used as almost a pejorative among the pro-gun control crowd is that they are seen as wanting to deregulate all gun ownership.
olaf
2886
What are you basing that statement on? First off what does ‘stockpiled’ mean to you? Second…what do you consider sport? Because in my experience, people that own guns go and shoot them a lot. And would shoot them even more if ammo were more readily/cheaply available.
