3267

The problem in the US is not that “rich people are gaming the system” when it comes to how public schools are paid for, its that people want local control over their local schools and that has traditionally meant local (and state) funding, with local property taxes being the primary source of school funding. In theory the federal government could try and equalize the gap between districts, but that then runs into the issue of the government programs helping only some but not all districts. As such, the federal money ends up having to be distributed via general all-access programs, like school lunch subsidies and things like that rather then simple cash payments to poor districts.

Some states have made efforts to try and equalize per student school spending, but that still wouldn’t keep richer school districts from potentially offering better schools if the taxpayers in that district were willing and able to spend more money then other districts. Ideally I’d love to see a greater equalization of school spending, but to accomplish that will require a major re-think in how schools are funded in the US.

3268

Even the wands is random search and seizure.

Some of the things on your list aren’t super terrible, but overall you’re overlooking one important thing: Guns are a Right, cars are not. If you want to amend the Constitution, then more power to you, but you can’t treat them the same. I’ll try to do a point by point, some thing we may just disagree on, others are pretty significant issues.

  1. Sounds conspiracy theory in some ways, but registration is the first step to seizure. It’s happened pretty much every time there is a registration. Plus a lot of people just wouldn’t register or would “lose” their guns or the like. Basically does nothing other than annoy the law-abiding.
  2. Gun ownership is a right, you can’t really have tests for a right. CCW go through some sort of training in most cases. Not a terrible idea, but not really enforceable.
  3. Way excessive penalties. Again requires a registration list.
  4. Fair enough in most regards, they are currently illegal as far as I know, though the penalty is still draconian.
  5. Basically already the case via FBI background checks (at least in theory). Could use tightening up of the system.
  6. Accidents happen, sending people to mandatory jail time is silly. Plus Mandatory Penalties are a horrific thing that need to be removed from our justice system anyway.
  7. Fair enough, again we’re talking mandatory jail time it seems. Plus you need flexibility depending on the situation (though I agree many situations currently are bullshit - someone rang my doorbell so I shot him! Fucker should be doing time.
  8. Agreed, a lot of states have clauses to address this. Basically if you defend yourself you’re immune to civil litigation.
  9. Not really relevant other than to push up the cost of ammo. The amount of lead deposited isn’t statistically relevant anyway.
  10. See 9.
  11. Generally the law most places. You can sometimes bring one as long as you don’t drink. Once you drink you’ve committed a crime. Places often have to serve food. Don’t have an issue with it for the most part.
  12. Again with the jail time. I think you should be responsible for your weapon and anything that happens with it, but sending some poor bastard to jail after his kid shot himself isn’t helping anyone. Stupid people will still be stupid.
  13. Er… Ok. Handguns generally can’t be bought by under 21 and automatic weapons can’t be bought by fucking anyone. Maybe you mean semi-automatic, there’s a huge difference. In that case I disagree on the semi-autos since I don’t see the logic. I guess you could make it illegal, but who’s going to enforce it? Seems like just an added penalty to heap on the dad who’s teen got his gun and committed suicide.
  14. Already covered.

I guess my main issue is you’re all about mandatory penalties and penalties and punishing people who are likely in terrible scenarios (kid committed suicide or shot themselves or the like). I think if your 16 year old kills himself, you’ve been punished enough, you shouldn’t be facing a mandatory prison stint on top of your life already being effectively destroyed.

3269

Culture is resilient thing.

I agree with your comments on school funding though. The current system is a sop to the middle class.

I think gangsta culture extends to things like “snitches get stitches”.

That’s one of the oldest precepts of honor. No matter what, no matter what they’ve done, a man never betrays a peer to a person in authority.

3270

Just to clarify something: they can actually be bought, but they are super regulated and require a class C federal license. Good luck getting one of those anytime soon.

3271

Well sure, but people keep acting like you can buy one at Walmart or some shit. Getting one is VERY difficult. It’s a matter of sloppy terminology usually. People call AR-15s automatic weapons and it sticks in my craw.

3272

I’d be more afraid of the guy next to me who is a hair trigger away from driving home drunk because let’s be real here, they drove to the bar rather than the off chance someone actually brought a gun into the bar and got drunk.

CCW holders usually are more responsible because they actually paid to take a class, at least gloss over their state’s law regarding carrying a weapon, show some proficiency with a firearm, take a test after the class, get voluntarily fingerprinted, then pay more out of pocket cost to an extensive FBI background check.

A “less savory” character would just forego all that, save themselves anywhere from $60-$150 and just conceal carry without a ccw permit.

This is not to say that a ccw permit holder may one day snap and just go cold-blooded killer, but an already cold-blooded killer is not going to go through all the hoops and money to get a ccw permit to most likely get denied anyways.

I hangout with ccw holders, and the FIRST thing that goes through their mind is NOT playing Mr Police Officer. Actually, most of them have a certain disdain for law-enforcement including yours truly. We believe that self-protection is a personal responsibility, and the less involved law-enforcement in protecting us is, the better. I view unarmed victims as making a tragic error in lack of self-protection on their part, and I see it a lot as I work in a courthouse. If that makes me cold or callous, so be it. I’m just tired of seeing crying families and injured victims every fucking day.

Arizona is pretty lax on gun laws, and even less on CCW permits. We do NOT need a ccw permit, and we do not need to register anything. We choose to get our ccw permits because we care about our gun laws and follow them, and it does allow us access to carry concealed or open in certain areas lawfully.

3273

That’s tough to see every day, but it’s always going to be a difficult choice. I wouldn’t blame anyone too much. It can be a plain old tragedy.

3274

ShivaX - with the number of murders and assaults committed with guns in this country, vs. all the other first world nations - aren’t extremely tough penalties what we need? Florida is already showing people are chasing others to shoot and kill them when it’s unwarranted. http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/florida-man-hops-fence-shoot-and-kill-21-year-old-hoodie-then-claims-self-defense
What’s worse is many of these people don’t even have to go to trial when they claim stand-your-ground. Another example http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01/06/3122411/florida-appeals-court-grants-immunity-shooter-bar-brawl/
So if we had standard laws that could be worked around for special cases, where it’s obvious a person shouldn’t be thrown in jail - then that would be good. You still have the solid sentence format, but it’s a starting point and is flexible. If the penalties aren’t harsh enough for carrying unregistered weapons, there’s not much reason to follow the law. But make it stern and impossible to misunderstand and people will change. Part of the problem with drunk driving laws right now is it’s too easy to get off, especially if you’re wealthy.

Martinez, you said

“This is not to say that a ccw permit holder may one day snap and just go cold-blooded killer, but an already cold-blooded killer is not going to go through all the hoops and money to get a ccw permit to most likely get denied anyways.”
and this is exactly why I’d suggest exceptionally tough penalties for unregistered weapons on unlicensed people. If a person isn’t going to go out and get the proper training, and go through registration, then chances are they’re maintaining a weapon for nefarious reasons, and if they’re too lazy then they shouldn’t own a weapon in the first place as they’re more likely to allow that weapon to be used by someone other than themselves.

3275

With guns, perhaps, but let’s keep in mind that the UK has double the assaults per capita of the United States. Interestingly, the murder rate for black males age 10-24 is greater than that of all but 3 countries, world wide. El Salvador, Honduras, and Ivory Coast. For homicides vs. gun ownership,

Note that 2013’s number, 4.7, puts us back into the mid 1950s.

3276

That is, theoretically, what juries are about. But America’s jury selection system is freaking nuts.

Houngan - I’ve yet to see a satisfactory explanation for the mid-90’s sharp drop in crime across the entire first world.

3277

Probably within 20 miles of my house: three dead in Columbia Mall in Maryland; one of the dead is believed to be the shooter. Too few details right now to say if this was a “random shooter” scenario or a targeted killing that happened to occur at a public mall.

3278

Very true.

However, can you still buy the conversion kits in the mail to convert your AR-15 to full auto? I remember seeing tons of those back in the day advertised in Shotgun Trader and other similar publications.

3279

No. Those count as machine guns under ATF rules, and unless they were manufactured before 1986, they’re just as hard to get one’s hands on as an actual machine gun. Edit: an actual new machine gun, that is. Pre-86 auto kits just follow the same NFA rules as any other pre-86 machine gun. They run several thousand dollars, for which you could buy a Sten gun if you so desired.

3280

Which, as one wag recently noted, you can buy 90% finished at Lowe’s in aisle 5.

This is all distraction from the real issues, though. Rate of fire has nearly nothing to do with shootings or mass shootings, and you can simulate full auto fire with any gun and a tiny bit of money, either with a slide-fire stock or a mechanised paddle system. The intent to kill is still the main factor that determines body count, not hardware. The great thing is that for some reason the psychosis necessary to become a mass shooter seems to be contraindicated with the discipline necessary to become truly effective with a firearm; I shudder to think what would happen if one of the top competitors, or even a notable Master-class, chose to start killing.

3281

The thing about mass shooters is (apart from being nutso) they’re all outliers.

3282

West Virginia man kills two people he thought were trespassing robbing from his property. I think color is a big motivator for many stand your ground situations. So to be totally stereotypical… imagine what race and image the shooter is? And guess what race the victims were?
“Defend yourself & property” by shooting first asking questions later is becoming very depressing.

Here is why I want extremely stuff gun laws for maintaining control of your weapon (ie. keeping them out of the hands of kids). https://www.google.com/search?q=2+children+shot&oq=2+children+shot&aqs=chrome..69i57.3252j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=child+shot+with+unattended+gun\

This short article is a poignant read as the idiot who left his loaded gun unattended will not be punished. http://momsdemandaction.org/faces-of-courage/tragic-refrain-adult-leaves-loaded-gun-unattended-child-dies/ Is there any other country in the world with these kinds of numbers of young children being shot by morons leaving loaded weapons out? Why doesn’t the NRA and ALEC push for harsh penalties for this kind of irresponsibility? If I wanted a gun, I’d never get one without some kind of personal identity safety mechanism if it couldn’t be in a safe 100% of the time. You people are all responsible, but we already know half the people in the U.S. are not and are basically village level idiots. So a good solution is some hardcore laws to make it unthinkable for leaving a weapon out unattended. If a person is forgetful and thinks they may not be able to adhere 100% of the time, maybe they shouldn’t have a gun then?

3283

I can’t argue with any of that, other than to say the “stand your ground” guy was arrested and will be charged and likely convicted of murder. You can just as easily point the finger at the media that has misrepresented what the various laws actually do.

But safe storage and handling? Yeah, I’ve always been on board with that. Right now the only real gun crisis we have is that successful suicide is easier when there is a gun present and accessible, a simple gun safe would very likely reduce the rate by double digits.

3284

Some follow-up on the mall-shooting that I cited above. It got an hour’s worth of national coverage, but when it became clear that no terrorists were involved and that the number of deaths were in the low single-digits, they moved on to the Grammys.

Since only three people died (one of which was the shooter), it does not qualify as a “mass shooting”, which required four (five, if one is the shooter). The gunman was kid who legally bought the shotgun a month and a half ago. He was well-liked, and a reasonable student who was accepted to a local community college but never attended. No criminal record; no history of violence; and so far no hint of mental illness, though there is an unconfirmed report that he had written in a journal about suicide.

3285

Meanwhile, in India:

Named after gang rape victim Nirbhaya, the Nirbheek is a small, lightweight revolver being marketed to Indian women

It would be an interesting experiment vs. the rape crisis in India, except it costs the equivalent of a year’s salary on average.

3286

Poor people deserve to be raped?

Yeah, I got nothing.