All-purpose gun legislation thread

unbongwah · 2013-01-15T08:52:38.000Z

The Gun Control Act already prohibits firearm sales to someone who “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.” Under that law, Seung-Hui Cho would have been barred from buying the pistols he used at VA Tech had the state decided to report him to the NICS after a judge deemed him mentally ill. Sadly, they didn’t.

Could he have obtained guns by other means? Very probably, unfortunately. But just because we can’t close every loophole or avenue doesn’t mean we shouldn’t close any of them.

WarrenM · 2013-01-15T08:59:26.000Z

Stepsongrapes:

Not to get all up in your rage, but the Colorado theater shooter bought his own guns.

For this issue, I think the bigger impact is the lack of mental health diagnosis in the US, but that doesn’t mean legislation further restricting gun purchases by the mentally ill is a total waste of time. Moreover, I care less about legislative time than I do about sapping political will and capital from more meaningful laws. That said, I think gun control is an issue that needs to be eased into and some of the laws, early on, would be more symbolic than truly effective, because that’s all you can do.

Fair enough. I guess what rages me is that it’s such a drop in the bucket. It isn’t like the mentally ill are rampaging through the streets with the guns they picked up at WalMart.

Stepsongrapes · 2013-01-15T09:12:15.000Z

WarrenM:

Fair enough. I guess what rages me is that it’s such a drop in the bucket. It isn’t like the mentally ill are rampaging through the streets with the guns they picked up at WalMart.

Well, my understanding is the only broad brush you can paint with is that it’s generally the poor who are raging through the streets with guns (whether picked up at Walmart or elsewhere).

We can work on reducing poverty, reduce the availability of guns, or perhaps both.

TimJames · 2013-01-15T09:16:17.000Z

WarrenM:

Fair enough. I guess what rages me is that it’s such a drop in the bucket. It isn’t like the mentally ill are rampaging through the streets with the guns they picked up at WalMart.

It’s confusing because the goal is unclear. The people raging through the streets are urban felons with handguns. The people killing white suburban school children are generally law-abiding citizens who suddenly snap and want to take others with them before they kill themselves. That’s why most of the proposed ideas focus on reducing that small subset of violence.

Stepsongrapes · 2013-01-15T09:24:53.000Z

Tim James:

The people raging through the streets are urban felons with handguns.

Well, according to this post in our discussion, rural settings have a higher per capita gun homicide rate than urban settings. http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=3293358&postcount=1368

Admittedly, it’s probably lower from an absolute numbers standpoint, also less streets.

John_Many_Jars · 2013-01-15T09:58:28.000Z

I understand there’s a serious problem in states like Kentucky with barefoot guys in inherited overalls puttin’ down the moonshine jug and takin’ up the shootin’ irons when a girl promised to her brother runs off with one o’ them no-good McCoys.

Houngan · 2013-01-15T10:00:12.000Z

John Many Jars:

I understand there’s a serious problem in states like Kentucky with barefoot guys in inherited overalls puttin’ down the moonshine jug and takin’ up the shootin’ irons when a girl promised to her brother runs off with one o’ them no-good McCoys.

Don’t be ridiculous, we don’t kill people over women. That was about a pig.

Houngan · 2013-01-15T10:05:44.000Z

Stepsongrapes:

Well, according to this post in our discussion, rural settings have a higher per capita gun homicide rate than urban settings. http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=3293358&postcount=1368

Admittedly, it’s probably lower from an absolute numbers standpoint, also less streets.

Whoa back now, where does it say that in the link? The only area where rural was ahead was in percentage between intimates, which of course makes sense since there isn’t really “street” crime in rural areas. They didn’t include rural in the per capita rate graph, but the graph clearly trends downward as population decreases.

Edit: I can’t even find anything in that link to support his rural/urban population distribution regardless of crime.

Stepsongrapes · 2013-01-15T10:12:13.000Z

Houngan:

Whoa back now, where does it say that in the link? The only area where rural was ahead was in percentage between intimates, which of course makes sense since there isn’t really “street” crime in rural areas. They didn’t include rural in the per capita rate graph, but the graph clearly trends downward as population decreases.

Edit: I can’t even find anything in that link to support his rural/urban population distribution regardless of crime.

Ha! You missed my precise wording: the post says, not the data!

So, you may be correct when it comes to facts, but I’m right about the post. I blame the discrepency on Jason! In his defense, we all know that everyone in the country is an “intimate” of everyone else, so Jason is, in fact, right.

Also, I’m still right about less streets, so there.

TimJames · 2013-01-15T10:12:37.000Z

John Many Jars:

I understand there’s a serious problem in states like Kentucky with barefoot guys in inherited overalls puttin’ down the moonshine jug and takin’ up the shootin’ irons when a girl promised to her brother runs off with one o’ them no-good McCoys.

I set you up with “back door ban” on guns and this is all you’ve got?

John_Many_Jars · 2013-01-15T10:13:36.000Z

Tim James:

I set you up with “back door ban” on guns and this is all you’ve got?

It was a great setup, but I already did “back door bans” upthread a little. :)

Houngan · 2013-01-15T10:57:56.000Z

Telefrog:

I guess I know where I’m headed after the zombie outbreak.

Proving there’s no bandwagon too stupid for Glenn Beck to leap at:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/glenn-beck-announces-plan-independence-usa-233854956.html;ylt=Arg4ublTUeGDXne6iKRehPqECu9;_ylu=X3oDMTUwbnBwdGU2BGNjb2RlA2N0LmMEbWl0A0FydGljbGUgTW9zdCBQb3B1bGFyBHBrZwM1MTY0ODUzMy1kM2U1LTNhZDUtOGM1ZS03NTg0Yzc0NDQ2MTIEcG9zAzUEc2VjA01lZGlhQkxpc3RNaXhlZE1vc3RQb3B1bGFyQ0FUZW1wBHZlcgNhZmNkYzljMy01ZWJmLTExZTItYmJmNS0zMTFkOWFlYWNmMTk-;_ylg=X3oDMTM0bmNoMTc5BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNDE1MDZiM2EtNGFhNS0zNjRkLWE2ZTQtMjZjMDVjOTVlOWVjBHBzdGNhdANwb2xpdGljc3xjb25ncmVzcwRwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2U-;_ylv=3

ineffablebob · 2013-01-15T11:22:13.000Z

ineffablebob:

We’ve gotten some data from independent studies in this discussion, but not a lot. NPR has an article today on part of the reason why.

News on the studies-about-firearms front. Via Reuters:

Research restrictions pushed by the National Rifle Association have stopped the United States from finding solutions to firearms violence, more than a hundred scientists from virtually every major U.S. university told Vice President Joe Biden’s task force on gun violence in a letter on Thursday.
Here’s the letter the scientists put together (PDF), which says:

RECOMMENDATION ONE: We call for the removal of the current barriers to firearm-related research, policy formation, evaluation and enforcement efforts.
RECOMMENDATION TWO: We call on the federal government to make direct investments in unbiased scientific research and data infrastructure.

TimJames · 2013-01-15T11:28:49.000Z

Onion headline –

Nation’s professors agree: give us free money for biased data-mining

jeffd · 2013-01-15T18:38:35.000Z

Ahh, there’s the ol’ paranoid strain of conservatism!

Dave_Markell · 2013-01-15T18:45:16.000Z

I’m surprised there’s been no mention of New York’s new gun laws, which were signed today:

The laws fortify New York’s existing assault weapons ban, limit the number of bullets allowed in magazines and strengthen rules that govern the mentally ill, which includes a requirement to report potentially harmful behavior.

Both the GOP-controlled Senate and Democrat-dominated Assembly approved the measure by overwhelming margins just one week after Cuomo spelled out the proposals in his annual State of the State address.

I believe in the importance of the second amendment and own a gun, but I see nothing wrong with any of this.

TimJames · 2013-01-15T18:49:24.000Z

We talked/joked about it earlier.

Dave Markell:

I believe in the importance of the second amendment and own a gun, but I see nothing wrong with any of this.

This is why education remains the key.

Dave_Markell · 2013-01-15T18:54:25.000Z

Oh, you’re right, I missed it earlier. My bad.

Two_Sheds · 2013-01-15T18:58:19.000Z

STOP DOIN’ HEROIN

Jason_McCullough · 2013-01-15T19:49:08.000Z

Christ, what do I need to do to find the text of the damn bill?