Am I the jerk here?

I’m just trying to get perspective on an issue I’m having.

I have an account for eve online, I played it actively for a year and then passively (skill training) for another year and a half. I finally mustered the willpower to cancel my subscription in fall of 2011. Recently a bunch of my friends started playing eve again, so I decide to join them. I find out the account no longer has my email address and complain to ccp, they tell me it may have been compromised and are investigating. I don’t hear anything for a week and then I get the following:

> > Hi again.
> >
> > Can you please tell us if you have at any time allowed or asked anyone to access your account for any reason? For example in order to finish some time sensitive tasks or change training? An honest reply is well appreciated, will help us solve this in a timely fashion and will have no adverse effect on your accounts.
> >
> > Best regards,
>> Senior GM Nova
>> EVE Online Customer Support

So I in the effort of trying to help say that yes once I had somebody login and queue up a skill for me while i was on vacation.

Another week passes and I get:

Hi again.

I regret to inform you that the account deathstik will remain permanently closed in order to prevent further complications. We have no way of knowing under what circumstances the account changed hands and we cannot justify giving you access to an account you have not had access to for two years, and whose character has been developed by another user for that period. As a registered user, you are solely responsible for the security of your registered account.

  1. A. Establishing a New Account
    … You are responsible and liable for all activities conducted through your Account, regardless of who conducts those activities.

You may not share your Account with anyone, or allow anyone other than you personally (or your minor child, if you have registered an Account on behalf of your minor child) to access or use your Account. Joint or shared ownership or use of an Account by more than one user is prohibited.

  1. B. Passwords and Names
    You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your Password and for any damage, harm, lost or deleted characters, etc. resulting from your disclosure, or allowing the disclosure, of any Password, or from use by any person of your Password.

Should you have or create another account in the future, we strongly urge you never to allow anyone to access the account for any reason at all.

Best regards,
Senior GM Nova
EVE Online Customer Support

I had told them in the middle of all this that I had had my wow account and email hacked, I just hadn’t thought to check my suspended eve account. I feel if they hadn’t tricked me with their lie that telling them the truth wouldn’t adversely affect my account they wouldn’t have had any room to do this to me. I know the person I had do my skill isn’t responsible for this.

Am I wrong to feel cheated? I’m just trying to get perspective on this whole issue.

Giving away your account login info is a big no-no in all MMO T&C’s. So, whatever they said, you were setting yourself up for trouble by telling them you did this.

That being said, do you remember the dates when you were away? Can you demonstrate that you changed your account login info (password at least) right after you came back from holiday so your friend didn’t have access to it anymore? If you had that (a confirmation email?), maybe it would show that the account was not open anymore. If not, you basically opened up your account to a third party and left it open. From CCP’s perspective, who knows what happened to your account info afterwards.

I don’t think you are being the jerk here. But neither are they. The T&C’s are clear. You can imagine the kind of can of worms accounts where the password has been shared open.


They are the Jerks - it’s a video game.

What possibly is the harm on giving you your account back? How is that any more safe than you just creating a new one? You can create a new one, throw all your information possible into it and then publish the log info on a public forum. Closing your old account because it was compromised is just dumb. It happens all the time in Wow and they just reset it and give it back to the proper owner.

I would reply with a quote: “An honest reply is well appreciated, will help us solve this in a timely fashion and will have no adverse effect on your accounts.” and ask them why they felt lying was the right approach.

Also I suggest editing the account name out of the email above. Although I guess it doesn’t really much matter in this case.

Are they saying it’s okay to sell accounts? As that is what it sounds like to me. Since you haven’t had access to it for a couple of years they don’t want to offend the other person playing your former account and consider it his now?

They’re being the jerks, feel cheated but it’s probably not worth fretting over. Just move on and never deal with them again if this is how they treat their customers.

Jesus, that’s almost cartoonishly evil customer service jackassed-ness. I hope you sent that asshole his first email where he promised there would be no adverse effects if you just told him the truth.

Frankly, you’re better off not getting sucked back into Eve anyway.

it’s unfortunate and that line about “no adverse effect” is clearly bullshit. If you are going to go back at them to complain about anything, this should clearly be the main point.

Having said that, eve online is … eve online. Some of the previoud replies do not seem to be aware of the context. Account sharing and hacking is rampant, because of the actions of a few players always trying to push things to the limits and trying to game the systems, CCP has had to become more and more strict over the years. Add the persistent universe and their response was predictable.

What I do not understand is that you talk about a changed email address but the GM response mentioned an account which changed hands? It is forbidden to transfer accounts, if you want to try and recover it, I would send CCP a certified copy of id documents etc, anythign that can help prove you were the original person who created the account. Not going to be easy, especially after admitting to account sharing …

Thanks for the replies, it makes me feel better. I have pointed out that the GM lied to me, but he just ignores that. I keep trying to log new tickets to complain about the entrapment, but he keeps intercepting them and smugly replying back to me. This is his latest reply to me:

Hi again.

Please read my replies again carefully. We are not giving you access to the account as you have not used the account for over two years and you have had nothing to do with the character’s development for that time. You claim to be a victim of hacking, although freely admitting to account sharing. Hackers traditionally do not use the accounts hey hack into.

Best regards,
Senior GM Nova
EVE Online Customer Support

If sharing accounts is against the rules, he should ban the account. This looks like he’s allowing whoever stole it to keep it. That’s outrageous.

Might be time to try contacting Eve fansites, etc. They should either ban the account or give it back to you.

Wow. I know what and how EVE is but it sounds like they’re taking it to the next step. Not only can you be a pirating jackass in the game, which is expected, but you can do it in the real world and hijack other user accounts and it’s all cool if you continue to use it for a period of time.

I can see where they are coming from.

Basically if they chooses to believe your version of the story, they will need to:

  1. Revoke access of another user who have played the account for the past 2 year and paid with his money for these 2 years of subscription
  2. Grant you the access of an account with all the accumulated “wealth” and “skills” which you have not played yourself

This makes it really messy to deal with. As it’s a no-win situation for them. That is provided they can verify that your are completely truthful with them.

You may have given a verbal OK to this “friend” to use your account since you are not playing anymore. You may have transferred the account. You may have given away your account. He may have hacked you (which is doubtful, since hackers would have just sold your account so they are not traceable). Etc etc.

Note that all this while, you had not been paying for subscription for this account (or have u?). This makes the friend you gave the account to a legitimate customer in their eyes.

He certainly is not a legitimate customer, unless Eve allows users to trade accounts.

Are you certain of this? Does EVE forbid accounts to be given to family members? E.g. Father gives an account to son.
Since it seems that you can change email address of the account, it seems that the account is transferrable. And it’s non-transferrable clause is un-enforceable unless it’s tied to something like your driver’s ID or some such stuff.

Edit: Imagine the reverse.
A poster says that a friend gave him an account to play since he’s leaving the EVE universe.
He paid with his money and built up an empire for the past 2 YEARS. But now, that friend made EVE revoked his access and gave his friend this account. But he cant produce proof that he was given the account apart from the fact that his accountid/password was given to him for him to change the account information.

So from the point of a objective 3rd party, it’s what he says vs what she says.

I don’t know Eve specifically, but every other MMO TOS prohibits account trading, yes. As for being unenforceable, it’s completely enforceable. If they find out you traded/sold your account, they take your fucking head^H^H^H^Hban it.

I should have rephrased my un-enforceable more correctly. The sanctions are enforceable. But account trading is un-preventable. Sorry for my poor phrasing. =)

You have to look at this from their perspective, being in customer service for an MMO is one circle below the 9th circle of hell. They spend probably 90% of their day, every day, dealing with people that are either internet basement shutins with serious persecution complexes, or people that are outright lying to them. It sucks that it happened to you, but it’s pretty easy to see how they came to that decision given how long the account has been sitting etc.

If it was me on the other end, I probably would have just given you the account back because…well…so what at the end of the day. I think situations like this really do put them in a difficult position though as there often isn’t a clear really good move for them.

I’m sorry if this wasn’t clear they have banned the account, my issue is that I know the person I gave the account info to is not the person that hijacked it. I wouldn’t have even mentioned it had I not been lied to. That is my main issue, something completely ungermane to the hijacking of my account is what they are using to permanently close the account. If I had still been playing I would have reported it when it happened, but since two years passed they would rather ban my account than give it back to me.

I regret to inform you that the account deathstik will remain permanently closed in order to prevent further complications. We have no way of knowing under what circumstances the account changed hands and we cannot justify giving you access to an account you have not had access to for two years, and whose character has been developed by another user for that period.

Emphasis mine. How did they know you haven’t been playing for two years? In your initial contact with CCP, did you tell them the same story you posted above? Sorry to say, and I’m sure you didn’t think any ill would come of it, but you gave them too much information.

They can probably deduce it from the credit card billing records.

Ahh, OK then. You naively admitted to breaking their terms of service, so it’s perfectly fine for them to ban you.

The entrapment was a bit scummy, but Eve is apparently full of scammers and scumbags, it’s part of the attraction. It’s not like he’s a cop, he can do whatever he wants.

Hopefully you took a lesson from this and the next time someone says “Did you break our rules? It’s OK we won’t hold it against you”, you reply with “No, officer, I don’t know what happened.”