No where did you get, that I suggested doing this without consideration of other factors. As for your assertion that it never works. I reviewed this (incomplete) list of military interventions. I count at least 47 instances where US intervention, saved a 100+ live and scores more where it saved smaller numbers. Notable ones include, the defense of South Korea, the first gulf war, the no fly zones in Iraq, air campaign in the Balkans. Interventions in Libya 2011, against ISIS 2014. Humanitarian efforts and/or peace keeping efforts in Somalia, Bosnia, Sinai desert. The invasions of Panama, Grenada, and Haiti (1994 not sure how early ones worked out for us.) . Not counting the numerous times we’ve sent US troops to provide humanitarian help.
This is fair. Bush was not evil, but his VP Cheney was. So on balance?
As a bleeds blue diehard liberal pinko, after 2016, Bush Jr gets some perspective. Sure he started a costly war that wasn’t necessary, Sure he held back LGBT rights for years, and sure he oversaw an administration that allowed Wall Street to run unchecked into the greatest economic turmoil since the great depression.
But I don’t think those were done out of selfish reasons (except maybe the LGBT thing, for votes in the rural areas) just misguided trust in others. There wasn’t an animosity that we have now.
The current adminstrative is actively combative with our allies, and openly welcoming to our enemies. All because our president wants some sort of Nobel prize, and Putin and his cronies lined his pockets when no US banks would? None of the things being done now are being done because they are altruistic at the base.
The mental math required to use the Bible to justify tearing children from their parents is staggering. This is not something that has good intentions behind it. It is heinous.
This is some rough shit.
https://twitter.com/LeanneNaramore/status/1007348227228815360
I hated him as a President and still blame him for needless wars and hundreds of thousands of lives lost or disrupted. He was at the forefront of the neocon movement that I feel like did a significant amount of damage and were terrible people. He pushed through shit like the Patriot Act.
But I don’t hate him as a person. Compared to Cheeto, he’s practically a saint.
Exactly. I don’t hate Bush, I do hate Cheney.
And the history books will be far kinder to Bush 43 than he deserves because 45 is just the worst.
Oh absolutely. When 2008 came, I had such a sense of relief that I’d never have to watch that buffoon again. I actually thought that might be the worst president I’d ever see in my lifetime: an erosion of civil liberties in the Patriot Act, bogged down in two wars, an exploding deficit, Hurricane Katrina, and the Great Recession all under his watch. I mean damn, it’d be hard to top that resume.
Then Trump happened. FML, as they kids used to say.
This is me. Cheney was the devil. Even Bush was tired of Cheney by 2008.
And yet, is there one of us who would not have preferred him in office? Evil and self-serving, yes, but predictably so.
I would literally prefer a leaking barrel of radioactive waste over Donald Trump.
Thanks for the write up. Very educational.
You can’t yet point to any one thing, policy wise, Trump has done (I know, I know, hold my beer) that is more harmful than Bush’s launching of the Iraq war. I’m as nostalgic for 43 as the next guy, given the current state of affairs, but I also try to keep things in perspective.
That said, it could be argued, and I feel it in my bones, that Trump’s disintegration of our republic’s norms is in fact more harmful long-term. But at this point it’s also more abstract than 200k (at minimum) corpses.
Bush’s work in Africa will stand him in good stead in the eyes of history. If all that matters is utilitarian math (lives destroyed vs. lives saved), I guess he comes out ahead.
Right up until we end up with a Stalin or Hitler.
And he’s still got plenty of time to start a war over… literally anything. If we invaded Iran next week I wouldn’t be surprised.
Hell, if we invaded Canada or Mexico it wouldn’t be that much of a shock at this point.
Agreed on all counts.
Seems that is where we are going, Headline says it all.
“Started a costly war that wasn’t necessary” is a really generous way to describe a military action that makes Hitler’s annexation of Czechoslovakia look downright humanitarian by comparison.
You sure about that? I mean, really? You think that what the us did in Iraq was worse than the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia?
I’m pretty sure the relatives of the 263,000 Jews who died in the Czechoslovak Republic between 1939 and 1945 would dispute your insanely idiotic claim.
IMO, the US reached a high point in the late 1990s where it and the UN and the WTO were creating a stable environment where even the smallest or poorest nations could do business in safety without being harassed and bullied by its neighbors. 9/11 showed us that not everyone in the world was happy with this arrangement. Trump shows us that not everyone in America is happy with this arrangement.
I don’t have much positive to say about the US since then, other than Obama was a nice guy.
See, 250,000 Jews is actually a lot smaller number than the civilian body count in Iraq. The insane thing is thinking that what happened to Czechoslovakia was worse.
No man, it was worse.
Also, those Jews were directly murdered by the Nazis. Along with thousands and thousands of other folks directly murdered by the Nazis.
The US military did not murder hundreds of thousands of civilians.
You need to step back and try to grab some semblance of perspective here.