An End to Evil

Politics and religion
1

In 2004, I was in Iraq. Part of our mission was to hunt Zarqawi, and the rest turned into a place called Fallujah. While operating within two miles of Fallujah (weeks after the Blackwater contractors were slaughtered), I recieved a book called “And End to Evil” by David Frum and Richard Perle.

If you are not familiar with those two individuals, here is your chance to research them via Google or research method of choice.

I just had a dinner at my house with some old Marine friends. I decided to dig this book out to quote them various paragraphs.

What I learned from quoting this book in 2007 is that this administration is completely moronic, and has been since its inception. A book written in 2003/4 proves it.

Let me give you a hint of their mindset in 2004.

“In Iraq, U.S. forces overthrew Saddam Hussein’s entire regime with half the troops and in half the time it took merely to shove Saddam out of Kuwait in 1991. It did not matter: The gloomsayers were unembarassable. Having been proven wrong when they predicted the United States would sink into a forlorn quagmire in Iraq, they reappeared days later to insist that while military victory had been assured from the beginning, the United States was now losing the peace: There was looting throughout the country; the national museum had supposedly been sacked…”

“Now the pessimists are quivering because the remnants of the Baath Party have launched a guerilla war against the allied forces in Iraq.”

“Confederate soldiers terrorized their neighbors, robbed trains, and killed Union soldiers. Was the Klu Klux Kloan a “national resistance”? Was Jesse James”.

"Like General Barry McCaffrey, they predicted a military disaster in which the United States could potentially suffer, bluntly, a couple to 3,000 casualties’.

I do not need to quote more here. If you would like to pick up the book, you can. But rest assured, that these were the men deciding the course of our nation. These were the men deciding our “War against Terror”. These were the men who advised Bush, Cheney and the rest.

In 2002, my good friend worked at CentCom. He remembers finding information that indicated that Zarqawi was in the north of the country, hiding. He was completely and utterly outside of Saddam’s radar. When they requested clearance to kill him, the Bush party response was “No, lets use that later to try and pin Saddam to terror.” Today, several of my comrades are dead as a result of this decision.

Yesterday, Cheney used the same old speech. Saddam had links to Al Qaeda because Zarqawi was operating in Baghdad.

I want to indicate something very personal to me. When I operated in Iraq, families would come out and throw rocks at us. They…bluntly put…hated us. They hated us not because they were terrorists, but because we were doing more damage to their families than Saddam ever…ever…ever did. As of this date, I have lost over thirty close and personal friends in the “War on Terror” in Iraq. I have been drenched with the blood of my brothers…I have been covered in their courage…brain particle by piece of bone.

For those of you who voted for Bush in 2004…I say “Shame on you”. For those who are under the age of 30 who voted for him and cower in your homes typing on this forum…Shame on You.

The military is currently recruiting criminals to fight this war, stretched as they are. If they are willing to recruit criminals, they will recruit you. Pick up a rifle and fight. Walk the walk.

Britain is fighting in Helmand Province, Afghanistan…with two helicopters and severely undermanned. They are fighting the real “War of Terror”. Again, pick up a rifle and fight.

id4698…out.

2

“Now the pessimists are quivering because the remnants of the Baath Party have launched a guerilla war against the allied forces in Iraq.”

Quivering? Quivering? Listen Frum and Perle, you fucking neo-nerd hypocritical bitches…let me see how tough you are in the face of a RPG. Quivering. You fuckers quiver at the sound of the bellman approahing your DC hotel room.

Fuck you.

3

It is general practice on this forum to give the people you will argue with a chance to write a post before telling them to go fuck themselves. I know it’s hard to restrain the Fucking Fury, but give it a shot.

4

In this specific case I say give him a pass, a pre-emptive “go fuck yourself!” being totally called for.

5

Agreed. I’ve a few friends that were in the first Gulf War and not one of them came back the same person that they were before hand. One of my friends, a photographer, showed me some of his “work” while over there. Sometimes you couldn’t tell who’s uniform you were looking at. In other cases an explaination was required to understand what he was documenting. Disturbing would be a tame way of describing his albums.

No, a good up front “Fuck You” is acceptable in this situation IMO.

6

This wasn’t directed at anyone in the forums…it was directed at the author of the book.

I really respect what people have to say in these forums, and will always have an open ear as a result. Anyone can say whatever they would like.

7

Also, my anger was pretty close to the surface when I wrote this last night, having just read the paragraphs again. No offense intended to anyone in these forums with my harsh wording.

This is very personal to me, and some times it hits close to home. One of the reasons I love these forums is that you are all typically very adult and very intelligent. I love reading what all of you have to say.

I know that by posting here, I will get intelligent and thoughtful consideration, and perhaps varying viewpoints.

Again, I apologize for the strong wording. However, I will not edit something that important to me.

8

I personally extend that window of responsibility to the 2000 elections as well (even though it’s a smaller number, and things were admittedly somewhat less clearly going in the blatantly wrong direction). For 2004 there really was no excuse, although much of the damage had already been done.

9

I’m with ya man. 2004 just scrambled my mind totally. I couldn’t believe Bush won again. Even started a thread about it here called “When is Stupid, Stupid?” after some panicked Democrats went into a frenzy of self-blame saying they’d failed to reach out to rural voters and religious sorts. But sometimes people are just stupid. Becoming stupid yourself ain’t gonna fix things.

But now, too belatedly, I think the public is catching on. Bush is in the shitter with everyone but hardcore Republicans. Neocons blame him for a failed policy. The government’s professional beaurocracy is on the verge of revolt against the politicising that’s gone on. “True” conservatives are running away as fast as they can (in total denial of the fact that their ideology attracted these crazy folks whom they embraced until things went bad).

The inquiries are just starting. I predict inside of a year between a newly aggressive mainstream media (“Oh, is that where I left my ballsack?”) and a Congress that’s not just simpering yes-men we’ll see quite a bit of hash sorted out. It can’t make up for what you’ve seen and had to endure or the lives of your friends but maybe, this time, we’ll learn our lesson?

10

More Americans have died in a “pre-emptive” war than were killed in 9/11, and we just went through a week of ridiculous lies and Kabuki theater by the press because a member of our government decided it might be useful to open a dialog with Syria instead of posturing and blustering from the children in the administration.

What are we learning again?

11

That’s a bit unfair. What is conservative ideology? True conservatives are those who believe in free market, less government policies. You may disagree with those policies, but I don’t see how they lead to religious fundamentalism, warmongering, or any of the other things the Bush administration is linked with.

12

I think that after the last few decades we cans safely say that “true conservatism” is a utterly failed ideology with an ever changing set of goals tied ultimately to individual greed and self-justification.

All along anyone who failed was immediately branded as not a true conservative, but after the orgy of bullshit and bed-wetting we’ve been through since 9/11 I think it’s safe to say that it’s rotten to the core. Time to throw it on the rubbish heap and start again.

Doing anything for power is one thing, but doing it and totally screwing up doesn’t get you a do-over because it somehow wasn’t pure enough.

13

I disagree. I think that the past few decades have shown us that many people who claimed to be “true conservatives” were not.

I happen to know some actual conservatives, people who believe in market forces and minimal government. People who believe in a strong but fair and grounded in fact foreign policy.

They do exist. There’re just very few.

14

Aaron: Did any of them vote for Kerry in 2k4?

Yeah, I know lots of “true conservatives” too. They vote GOP every time.

15

I voted for Kerry in 2004. Been a registered Republican since before many board members were born and consider myself more of a Goldwater conservative than anything else when it comes to politics. I’m also a Christian, as I’ve said before in the past. And, boy oh boy, do I loves me some Bush jr. His administration is just a wonderful potpourri and corruption and incompetence, and it’s absolutely galling to sit back and watch the self-righteous so-called Christians in this country mindlessly allow a few social wedge issues (abortion and homosexuality) to dominate all other considerations when at the election booth. Kinda like watching our resident echo chamber troll, Bob Cherub, continue being nothing but a complete and total embarassment to anything that even begins to consider itself as conservative.

And of course people like Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson can go fuck themselves. So, yes, some of us do exist and we voted against Bush (both times). :P

16

So in other words, everyone who disagrees with you is morally bankrupt. (golf clap)

17

Strange, because by that definition I’m a total conservative. I am a big fan of laissez-faire economics and minimal government interference, but I get called a filthy liberal by some right-wingers, because I don’t support bombing the crap out of people as a viable solution to international problems.

My general guiding principle is: the less meddling by government the better. That’s across the board: economics, people’s personal lives, and the affairs of other nations. What I find confusing is that most conservatives, at least those who want to give me their two-cents worth, seem to approve of government meddling in everything but economics.

From my perspective, government meddling in anything tends to be disasterous. For evidence, see communism, the war on drugs, and the war on terror.

18

Highways, social security, medicare, ending segregation, education. We can debate the value of government turned to good ends but it can and has been done. Everything we’ve seen “privatized” seems to turn to instant shit.

19

Wow, that had absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Nice remix though, shame that it’s a totally different song.

If your movement takes power, is given all the money and clout they need, and then totally fails to successfully do any of the things they promise or claim, thats a failed ideology!

[QUOTE=AaronSofaer]I disagree. I think that the past few decades have shown us that many people who claimed to be “true conservatives” were not.

Right. Anyone who fails gets chucked out or thrown under a bus. How convenient what with hindsight being 20/20 and all.

[quote]They do exist. There’re just very few.

How is an ideology so particular and so small that most people who claim to be in actually aren’t, a useful one?

20

Hey, it works for Al Qaeda.