Android - what's in your pocket?


#1948

I don’t understand the desire to use wired headphones at this point.


#1949

No need to worry about charging, no need to worry about loosing them, backwards compatibility, better sound quality, better price, no need to worry about syncing them, no need to have blue booth on all the time and I have earphones that I like.

There just isn’t anything on the market that is as good.


#1950

Rhythm games don’t work with bluetooth headphones. The lag is inconsistent. Also, I use my phone as a Roku remote and with bluetooth the total lag (Roku to phone to headphones) causes lip sync issues. Yes, I usually use wireless for most applications, but there are a few use cases where wired headphones are useful. That said, I’d happily use a USB-C-to-headphone adapter if there’s no lag with that.


#1951

My g6 arrived yesterday. The phone itself is fine. It’s a slight step back in responsiveness from my Pixel, but not really all that noticeable. The battery life is about 5x better, power button works, USB-C connector works. And it’s got a fingerprint sensor. I’m a little annoyed that my model doesn’t have an NFC chip (apparently European ones do.) I’d gotten used to using the phone to pay for things. But that’s a minor issue (and probably better for security.) I do like that the g6 includes Moto gestures, like the double karate chop to turn on the flashlight. I missed that feature from my Pixel.

One weird issue. My Pixel is running Pie. The g6 runs Oreo. If you’re downgrading operating systems with a new phone, you can’t do a direct transfer of all of your settings to the new phone. I had to manually install all of my apps, manually change all my settings, manually sync my contacts, etc. It wasn’t that big a pain, but took me a couple of hours.


#1952

Adding onto the pile on:

Bluetooth to my car stereo and Oontz Angle speaker are both detectably lower quality than wired connections to both devices, with audible static and compression artifacts. There is substantial lag introduced by Bluetooth that results in lip sync issues and messes with games as well. The actual audio experience is undeniably worse.

Syncing occasionally still just fails and needs me to restart Bluetooth mode or repair the devices or even reboot my phone. And god forbid your wanna quickly switch between two or more paired devices (e.g. sharing the stereo on a long road trip). The convenience and ease of use experience is noticeably worse.

Bluetooth seems to use more battery life on my phone, Bluetooth devices need to be charged themselves, and most USB-C to 3.5mm adapters don’t let you charge and play audio simultaneously (again, like on long road trips where you’re navigating and the phone may be in direct sunlight on a mount, further reducing battery life). So overall, the power experience is just worse by a wide margin.

Bluetooth headsets cost far more at almost every audio quality band. Adapters for existing wired solutions are an unnecessary expense. In the anecdata of friends, tiny wireless earbuds are also just easier to lose, necessitating replacement. From a cost standpoint, Bluetooth is just worse.

I’m frankly baffled that anyone who gives half a shit about music on their device would ever consider switching willingly.


#1953

You guys know that 3.5mm jacks just aren’t going to come back, right? I get preferring wired versus wireless (I do too). But adapters or wired headphones that are already jacked right is the best you’re going to get.

Phone manufacturers will not go back and sacrifice that much internal space for a 3.5mm jack.


#1954

Modem Android phones and good headphones support AptX Bluetooth which actually has lower latency (45ms) than wired headphones (60ms).

I don’t play rhythm games, so i doubt i would ever have noticed even the 200ms delay from standard Bluetooth.

I’m not sure you can actually say this authoritatively at this point. There’s nothing about the connection which prohibits transmission of the audio at the quality you would normally actually have on your phone.

Technically, the sound quality supported by AptX is better than the quality of anything sold on say, the iTunes store.

I’m no audiophile though. I’m just going by the specs.


#1955

Its an older list, but there are still a few still kicking and screaming.

But Mobile world congress is just around the corner. I’m curious what is coming up.


#1956

60 ms for wired headphones doesn’t seem right, do you have a cite?

Some random Googling on my part came up with 7 ms, but if you have a more authoritative source I’d like to read it.

I switched from the Pixel to the LG v35 specifically because it had a 3.5mm jack. And the LG is a great phone. It’s actually thinner than the iPhone X but has a larger battery. And it’s IP68 water resistant. And it has an FM radio, and inductive charging. So much for the “wasted space” argument.


#1957

Nah, just some test some dude did. I’m not sure what his exact methodology was, but the latency he was getting for the bluetooth stuff was around the same as what folks used to suggest, at 200ms.

https://stephencoyle.net/latency

Regardless, the latency of an AptX bluetooth connection is gonna be less than 45ms… no human being is gonna notice that.


#1958

Latency of 45 ms is definitely noticeable. The limit of detection for normal people is around 10 ms, and people may report 20 ms as annoying. For musicians, 5 ms is detectable and potentially annoying.


#1959

You said you don’t understand why people use wired headphones. I was simply providing a use case. There are people who play rhythm games on their phones (e.g. me.)


#1960

I 'm not sure what you’re trying to argue here. The jack takes up X amount of internal space. That space can be used for more battery (or other components). It’s not like that space somehow magically disappears in your phone. Your phone could have had X amount more battery, over and above what it has now. Whether your phone has more or less battery than an iphone isn’t the relevant issue.

Internal space and power consumption are two of the most limiting factors in phone design. When a phone manufacturer drops the 3.5mm jack, they’re rarely, if ever, doing it to save the price of the part.

Obviously not every phone manufacturer arrives at the exact same calculus, but the % of phones in use with the jack will decrease, it will never increase again.


#1961

Conversely, some phones will always offer it. The audio phone jack is a standard that dates back over 140 years. It’s robust and versatile and isn’t going anywhere.


#1962

I’m arguing that removing the jack was not necessary to meet any of the listed design specs for the iPhone X.


#1963

I don’t see how your LG phone having a bigger battery than an iphone establishes that, at all. Are you making the assumption that other than the jack and the batteries, the internals of the two phones (and the total internal volume) are the same? Where does that assumption come from? Now, if you want to point to a teardown of an iphone that shows amble amounts of internal space left unused, that would be a different matter.


#1964

Dude, this just makes no sense at all.

Sound moves at a speed of around 1 foot per milisecond.

If 10ms was noticeable, then that would mean that sound from 10 feet away from you was somehow perceptibly different than sound from 1 foot away from you, in something other than volume. When you are sitting 10 feet away from someone, you aren’t sitting there annoyed at the “delay” created by the soundwaves traveling 10 feet to your ear, right?

At basically any concert you have ever been to, the delay you experience in the sound reaching your ear is greater than that.

If you are playing the music yourself, THEN it might matter… although even then I’m extremely skeptical, just because you have folks who actually play music ON devices like an ipad, where you have a greater latency between touching the screen and the sounds than that.


#1965

They are obviously not the same. But since the iPhone X lacks a feature that the v35 has, then I think it’s reasonable to ask what feature the iPhone has added to compensate. The iPhone X is heavier, has a smaller screen, a smaller battery, a smaller screen/body ratio, fewer pixels, etc.

So, what feature did Apple give us that necessitating losing a 3.5 mm jack? As far as I can tell the answer is nothing. They dropped the 3.5 mm jack because they can’t design a phone as efficiently as LG can. Which is something!


#1966

Judging by the iphone teardowns, the FaceID sensor package (which also powers improved FaceTime functionality) is probably the biggest thing. After that, it’s probably the taptic engine and A12 chip, but I haven’t looked at any teardowns of your LG to see how big it’s haptic and processor components are.

Also, judging from external pictures, your LG is at least longer, and probably also wider, than an iphone XS. I suspect the available internal volume of the two phones is substantially different.

Again, there’s no need for comparison: the jack takes up a fair amount of space. That’s a simple, straightforward fact. What each manufacturer who removes it chooses to replace with it may vary, but the fact that it takes up space is irrefutable. If you think LG is better at making space efficient designs, great. Then those LG engineers could have used that space for something else, if the design dictated no jack. I don’t see why that’s even debatable.


#1967

I think you are confusing a few questions.

Can you detect a delay of 10 ms? That’s the threshold for most people, so by definition the answer is “occasionally, but not always”.

Can you detect a delay of 20 ms? For most people, the answer is “usually”.

Ok, so is a 20 ms delay annoying? Well, that depends. At 20 feet, it’s hard to see people’s lips move in real life. So probably not. At a concert, it’s very hard to correlate what you see to what you hear. So almost definitely not.

Ok, what about seeing something that is easy to correlate, like the noise of a vase crashing into the ground? Well, the brain is an amazing thing. If something looks far away, your brain expects a delay in the sound it makes, and the delay actually contributes to the perception of distance. In fact, so does the delay between sound reaching your right ear and reaching your left ear, only a few inches apart! It all registers and subconsciously contributes to sound localization.

But problems occur when someone is trying to trick your sense of localization. Say, by putting a picture very close to you, but with a sound cue that suggests that it is far away. That’s when your brain gets annoyed. And in fact, the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers suggests limits for A/V synchronization ranging between 15 ms and 45 ms, depending on the medium and type of mismatch.