Another MMO dies -- Earth and Beyond

Euri · March 18, 2004, 1:26pm

Abysmal Sea
Acrylia Caverns
Ak’Anon
Akheva Ruins
Barindu - The Hanging Gardens
Befallen
Beholders Maze
Black Burrow
Burning Woods
Butcherblock Mountains
Cabilis East
Cabilis West
Cazic Thule
Charasis
Chardok
Chardok, Halls of Betrayal
City of Mist
Cobalt Scar
Crushbone
Crypt of Dalnir
Crypt of Nadox
Crystal Caverns
Dagnors Cauldron
Dawnshroud Peaks
Deepest Guk
Doomfire, the Burning Lands
Dragon Necropolis
Dreadlands
Drunder, Fortress of Zek
Dulak’s Harbor
East Commonlands
Eastern Karana
Eastern Wastes
Echo Caverns
Emerald Jungle
Erudin
Erudin Palace
Eruds Crossing
Eryslai, the Kingdom of Wind
Everfrost Peaks
Feerrott
Felwithe
Ferubi - Forgotten Temple of Taelosia
Field of Bone
Firiona Vie
Freeport East
Freeport North
Freeport West
Frontier Mountains
Fungus Grove
Great Divide
Greater Faydark
Grieg’s End
Grimling Forest
Gukta, Outpost of Marr
Gulf of Gunthak
Halas
Halls of Honor
Hate’s Fury
Highhold Pass
Highpass Keep
Hollowshade Moor
Iceclad Ocean
Icewell Keep
Ikkinz - Antechamber of Destruction
Inkuta
Innothule Swamp
Jaggedpine Forest
Kael Drakkal
Kaesora
Kaladim North
Kaladim South
Karnor’s Castle
Katta Castellum
Kedge Keep
Kerafyrm’s Lair (Sleeper’s Tomb)
Kerra Island
Kithicor Forest
Kod’Taz - Broken Trial Grounds
Kurn’s Tower
Lair of Terris Thule
Lake of Ill Omen
Lake Rathetear
Lavastorm Mountains
Lesser Faydark
Lower Guk
Marauder’s Mire
Marus Seru
Mines of Nurga
Miragul’s Menagerie
Mistmoore Castle
Mistmoore Catacombs
Misty Thicket
Mons Letalis
Nagafens Lair
Najena
Natimbi - The Broken Shores
Nedaria’s Landing
Nektulos Forest
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 Neriak 3rd Gate
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 Neriak Commons
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 Neriak Foreign Quarter
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 Netherbian Lair
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 Northern Desert of Ro
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 Northern Karana
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 Oasis of Marr
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 Ocean of Tears
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 Oggok
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 Old Sebilis
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 Paineel
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 Paludal Caverns
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 Permafrost
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 Plane of Disease
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 Plane of Fear
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 Plane of Growth
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 Plane of Hate
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 Plane of Innovation
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 Plane of Justice
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 Plane of Knowledge
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 Plane of Mischief
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 Plane of Nightmare
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 Plane of Sky
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 Plane of Storms
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 Plane of Time
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 Plane of Torment
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 Plane of Tranquility
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 Plane of Valor
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 Qeynos Aqueducts
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 Qeynos Hills
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 Qeynos North
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 Qeynos South
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 Qinimi - Court of Nihilia
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 Qvic - Prayer Grounds of Calling
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 Ragrax, Stronghold of the Twelve
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 Rathe Mountains
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 Reef of Coirnav
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 Rivervale
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 Riwwi - Coliseum of Games
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 Ruins of Lxanvom
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 Ruins of Old Paineel (The Hole)
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 Rujarkian Hills
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 Runnyeye
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 Sanctus Seru
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 Sewers of Nihilia - Emanating Crematory

 Sewers of Nihilia - Lair of Trapped Ones

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 Sewers of Nihilia - Pool of Sludge
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 Sewers of Nihilia - Purifying Plant
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 Shadeweaver's Thicket
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 Shadow Haven
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 Shar Vahl
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 Siren's Grotto
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 Skyfire Mountains
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 Skyshrine
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 Soluseks Eye
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 Southern Desert of Ro
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 Southern Karana
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 Splitpaw Lair
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 Ssraeshza Temple
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 Steamfont
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 Stonebrunt Mountains
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 Surefall Glades
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 Swamp of No Hope
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 Takish-Hiz
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 Temple of Droga
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 Temple of Marr
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 Temple of Solusek Ro
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 Temple of Veeshan
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 The Arena
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 The Bazaar
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 The Caverns of Exile
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 The Deep
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 The Grey
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 The Maiden's Eye
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 The Nexus
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 The Overthere
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 The Scarlet Desert
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 The Tenebrous Mountains
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 The Twilight Sea
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 The Umbral Plains
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 Thurgadin
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 Timorous Deep
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 Tipt - The Treacherous Crags
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 Torden, the Bastion of Thunder
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 Torgiran Mines
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 Tower of Frozen Shadow
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 Tower of Solusek Ro
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 Toxxulia Forest
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 Trakanon's Teeth
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 Txevu - Lair of the Elites
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 Unrest
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 Upper Guk
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 Uqua - the Ocean God Chantry
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 Veeshan's Peak
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 Vegarlson, the Earthen Badlands
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 Veksar
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 Velketor's Labyrinth
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 Vex Thal
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 Vxed - The Crumbling Caverns
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 Wakening Land
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 Warrens
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 Warsliks Woods
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 West Commonlands
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 Western Karana
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 Western Wastes
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 Yxtta - Pulpit of Exiles
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Welcome to EQ’s longevity. Anything that doesn’t do this won’t be a great commercial success.

Alan_Dunkin · March 18, 2004, 1:32pm

You know, you really didn’t have to post 'em all.

— Alan

mtkafka · March 18, 2004, 1:43pm

And they say zones aren’t a good idea… thats why EQ is lasting so long… zones might be ‘small’ but the detail in the average EQ zone is so much more interesting than the average area in other mmrpg’s. The designers of EQ really know there DnD module and level designs. The only game that has as interesting zones as EQ isnt even out yet… I’m playing the beta right now (hint hint CoH has very nice and well designed colorful ‘zones’)!

We’ll see how WoW competes with EQ. Imo, EQ is still king when it comes to content. It’ll be hard to beat.

etc

Walter_Yarbrough · March 18, 2004, 4:11pm

I’m going to disagree with that. I think EQ, DAoC, FFXI, Lineage2 and WoW will have the resources to push out similar levels of content.

Content measured in many, many, many ways, from the number of zones in the game, to the number of levels, to the number of different advancement paths, to interactive websites, to the number of monster models, to the number of weapon and armor skins.

Content is such a nebulous term - but, boiled down the “things to do” - I think you have 5 contenders.

-Walt

BrianRubin · March 18, 2004, 4:47pm

This is too cool.

Jumpgate Offers Reassurance to Earth&Beyond Refugees
A special offer in consideration to veteran pilots

Louisville, Colorado, March 18, 2004 - NetDevil Ltd., the independent developers of the massively multiplayer space combat and trading simulation Jumpgate, today announced a special program offering a free thirty day trial (instead of the standard ten) for new accounts who send in a retail Earth and Beyond CD.

Join the enigmatic Quantar, the warlike Octavians, or the mercantilist Solrain as they work to rebuild civilization following the great collapse and defeat the alien Conflux menace.

“We are troubled to see the small online space genre losing another excellent game. At NetDevil, we’re hoping that players are still looking for something different in a market saturated with fantasy games. If players want to fly a spaceship, we obviously welcome them to check out Jumpgate,” commented lead programmer Josh Johnston.

To take advantage of the opportunity, players should:

Download Jumpgate http://www.jossh.com/support/

Create an account http://www.jossh.com/join_today/sign_up/

Package up your Earth and Beyond CD (box and jewel case optional), making sure to include a verified callsign and valid email address with your package, and mail it to:

Themis Group
C/O Jumpgate Division
2530 Meridian Parkway
2nd Floor
Durham, NC 27713

This offer only applies to accounts created between March 17, 2004 and October 31, 2004. For more information, see details at http://www.jossh.com/sswap
</pimp mode>

Now y’all have no excuse. ;)

mtkafka · March 18, 2004, 4:58pm

I’m going to disagree with that. I think EQ, DAoC, FFXI, Lineage2 and WoW will have the resources to push out similar levels of content.

Content measured in many, many, many ways, from the number of zones in the game, to the number of levels, to the number of different advancement paths, to interactive websites, to the number of monster models, to the number of weapon and armor skins.

Content is such a nebulous term - but, boiled down the “things to do” - I think you have 5 contenders.

-Walt[/quote]

Just cuz EQ has the most content doesn’t mean I think its a good game! I personally think DAOC is the most complete mmrpg out right now.

etc

HRose · March 18, 2004, 6:03pm

I don’t know. If with “content” you consider the different areas and things to do PvE-wise EQ is surely huge. Bigger with every expansion.

Still most of DAoC’s content is pretty dead. There are largely unused zones. When you exp your whole life is closed between only 4-5 zones which vary yearly following the common flavor. When they add new content it doesn’t feel like an addition. They added Avalon City and Lyonesse died.

Even the whole ToA is supposed to be huge in content but then it’s limited to MLs and artifacts. For both is really hard to find mates. Or you have a big guild supporting you or you’ll just forget about it.

My point is that DAoC isn’t being helped by having more content PvE-wise. Instead that’s the whole thing on which EQ is based.

Why that brings different results?

Rollory · March 19, 2004, 6:05am

Well, except that the game isn’t any fun. But aside from that, it’s a great gesture and a smart thing to do, yeah.

Jafisob · March 19, 2004, 7:30am

“Just cuz EQ has the most content doesn’t mean I think its a good game! I personally think DAOC is the most complete mmrpg out right now.”

DAOC is the most complete? PVE in DAOC is so painfully boring that they a big bonus they gave their customers who have 50s is the chance to autolevel to 20 or 30 depending on the server. Everybody acknowledges the pain of leveling in DAOC. The pvp is over in a few seconds and is usually one side blowing the other out ie. it is rarely a good battle. If DAOC had good PvE and more balance PvP then yes…it would be the most complete.

I agree with a lot of people here on EQ having loads of content and that content is a BIG draw to the game. I am waiting for a newer game to match or even come close to EQ.

Walter_Yarbrough · March 19, 2004, 10:07am

Yxtta - Pulpit of Exiles

Welcome to EQ’s longevity. Anything that doesn’t do this won’t be a great commercial success.

Just cuz EQ has the most content doesn’t mean I think its a good game! I personally think DAOC is the most complete mmrpg out right now.

Just for reference, DAoC has 155 zones, measuring by the same stick.

I don’t know. If with “content” you consider the different areas and things to do PvE-wise EQ is surely huge. Bigger with every expansion.

Still most of DAoC’s content is pretty dead. There are largely unused zones. When you exp your whole life is closed between only 4-5 zones which vary yearly following the common flavor. When they add new content it doesn’t feel like an addition. They added Avalon City and Lyonesse died.

If you played EQ - you would probably say the same thing, Hrose - particularly with the later expansions, which make older content totally obsolete. Here is one old essay on the phenomenon: http://tweety.bowlofmice.com/tweety/so.html

DAOC is the most complete? PVE in DAOC is so painfully boring that they a big bonus they gave their customers who have 50s is the chance to autolevel to 20 or 30 depending on the server.

It’s a crazy concept called “listening to the customers” and delivering what they asked for. We always acknowledged that the low levels of our game were for people to get their feet wet - so an experienced character really has no need to go through them again if they don’t want to.

If DAOC had good PvE

Just to toss up a PvE story from DAoC -

Bort wrote:
Which reminds me: The highlight of the night was when one generator operator made it all the way to the brink of the generator tiles. It all seemed lost for certain, but the defending group played it perfectly, even though they had to carefully time attacking him so as not to agro patrolling phoenix guards. By some miracle distract stuck every time for the precious few minutes before all would have been lost. The 5 people had no end regen (just 2 bards on the whole raid) but used everything they had, TWF, distract, druid melee you name it and just barely saved the day and held that operator on the edge of the generator tiles for what seemed like hours even though it was probabaly less than 5 minutes!

[quote]
OMG!!! The adrenalin that rushed through me at that particular moment was unreal when that operator died. I could almost swear I heard a collective sigh of relief from our group and from Lilj in /c. My hubby, Duke, was watching it too from my monitor and was just as exhilirated as I was on the kill (even though he was chuckling like a mad man at my stellar druid melee skills … go, go druid melee, right Q?). Two minutes later, I was screaming with victory as the Phoenix went down. Gawd what a high NO friggin drug could ever produce … excellent teamwork by all there on the raid.
[/quote]

/shrug - Content is so subjective.

-Walt

BrianRubin · March 19, 2004, 11:08am

Might I ask why you had no fun? I’ve been playing the game for years and have had nothing but fun. :)

mtkafka · March 19, 2004, 11:11am

Anyway, with WOW… will it be a success or a dud?!? and by success, will WoW be the first US mmrpg to draw a million subs? I have doubts it will even draw a half million… though there’s nothing wrong with 250k… thats ALOT of subs… but Blizzard is probably expecting B.net numbers… which won’t be happening anytime soon imo…

I really have lost interest in this game and actually most upcoming mmrpg’s… they just don’t try hard enough… there really has to be a ‘paradigm’ shift in the gameplay model for mmrpg’s… some sorta wakeup call. no more catass grind gameplay… i dont know what it could be, maybe something Sid Meier would have done… you know, like a Pirates! online or something.

etc

Jafisob · March 19, 2004, 11:21am

Yes content is subjective. And the subjective opinion of over 10 of my friends who have played both DAOC and EQ is that EQ has better and more diverse PvE content. This is 100 percent for people who I know who have played both. So please don’t try and tell me DAOC has better content or that it’s subjective which one is better. EQ has more and more interesting PvE but DAOC has better PvP(RvR whatever) then EQ. Arguing differently is suspect at least in my subjective opinion.

New EQ content does NOT obsolete older content by any stretch of the imagination. Some zones become underutilized but most do not.

If DAOC had better and more PvE content and better balanced PvP I would still be playing it. In fact I look forward to Mythic’s next game hoping they will learn from what they did right in DAOC and what they could do better. A mez/stun stand there and wait to be ganked version of PvP is not what I find amusing.

Guido_Jones · March 19, 2004, 12:38pm

You obviously haven’t RvR’d in a while, or played around in Trials of Atlantis.

HRose · March 19, 2004, 12:46pm

This is about /level 20. I’m not completely sure but I think I was right when, at the time, I predicted it could have damaged the game. Newbies don’t have anymore experienced players to play with. Also, the 1-20 range is dead, making the game even more harder for who is starting now.

And I think being ‘newbie friendly’ must be one of the first concern for every game.

A better solution could have been to give boost bonus to exp, applied to the whole range. Another solution could be to unblock the /level 20 command only for a pair of new character for every 50 you have. So that you will reiterate at a point. Another solution, which I tried to suggest, is to offer a bonus code in a new expansion to offer to everyone a one-time level 45 right out of the box. So experienced players will be pleased and it will be a must for the newbies (and they will be able to see the “New Frontiers”).

As I said at that time: Cutting completely a part off the game won’t solve the problem, nor it’s the best solution.

The ‘moral’ solution is about how boring and pointless is levelling. This is a flaw. General flaw. You don’t solve it by cutting the whole part. You solve this by making the game fun. So that those parts noone wants to play are once again fun to play, perhaps quick, but still there.

I think here World of Warcraft is starting to teach something. I’ve read noone EVER pulls anything, nor camps a spot. Everyone just wanders doing quest, crafting and so on. They completely cut from the game the grinding part (It’s years that players point this out).

Compare the two solutions. One game cut the whole newbie experience. One game made the newbie experience fun.

It has. Both.

This is another of the main concerns and big problems of the game. Never addressed, never considered.
Along with the grind-based play (ToA is ruined by it) and buffbots.

About the abandoning of zones. It’s time that DAoC put some sense in those zones, so that you need to go there, move and so on. And I don’t mean something lame like camp bonus. I mean a complete overhaul of the basic points on which the PvE is based. For all the zones and levels. A system-wide solution that is able to make things more lively with what you have already (90% unused and forgotten).

In DAoC the environment has no purpose, questing is completely unused (also because noone will group to do a quest, no matter how many months you wait). With a little effort it could be a lot better.

mtkafka · March 19, 2004, 12:56pm

I’ve read some complaints that WoW is basically as much of a grind as any mmrpg. Supposedly takes in the neighborhood of 300 hours to reach level 20 - 25… at least in the alpha.

etc

Guido_Jones · March 19, 2004, 12:58pm

How is wandering around doing quests not a grind? It’s differnet then rampaging around killing mobs for a couple hours, but it’s still a grind.

HRose · March 19, 2004, 1:17pm

You are confusing grind with treadmill.
I’m also reading a lot about WoW. Yes, it’s still just a treadmill but with the grinding part non-existent. You do things instead of repeating things. Yes, you can see questing like a repetition too but it has a purpose.

At this point every game is a grind. Baldur’s Gate a grind, Final Fantasy a grind, heck, even Doom can be seen as a grind.

The point is that what you do seems a lot of fun. The level achieving is a lot faster than DAoC and EQ, this is written in every report. Also noone pulls mobs for experience but as a part of a “purpose”. Like a quest.

To me this is a huge step forward.
Not a dream come true, but a step forward.

Mark_Asher · March 19, 2004, 1:20pm

I’ve read some complaints that WoW is basically as much of a grind as any mmrpg. Supposedly takes in the neighborhood of 300 hours to reach level 20 - 25… at least in the alpha.

etc[/quote]

I doubt it takes 300 hours to reach level 30. I’m at level six after just a couple of hours.

Xaroc · March 19, 2004, 1:33pm

My big question is what is WoW going to bring to the table that is new? Blizzard is good at polish and they have made a very addictive game in D2 but I see nothing that really excites me about WoW. It looks very generic in every aspect. Anyone see something that would point to this being different?

– Xaroc