Any HVAC experts? Am I being scammed?

We have had a couple of Totos and they are dreamy. The one we have now is a Drake II.

Everything I learned about toilets I learned from Terry Love.

We just installed a Toto in-wall unit in a half-bath we added. The in-walls are really cool and save a ton of space. I got to admit, I’m not sure I understand why you guys think the Totos are so dreamy. The rest of our toilets are, admittedly, Totos too, but I don’t feel like they’re so so much better than other brands.

Now, bidets are a whole other thing. . . .

My Totos have been a billion better than the American Standard crap that is usually installed. It is almost impossible to clog them.

In afraid I derailed this thread into the shitter!

Oh really? ;)

Clogging isn’t a problem with the old toilets it is the mechanisms inside having a "short: lifespan.

Ok hive mind, I need your opinion. Normally, as you know, I go with my own opinion, but in this case my opinion is so strong that I need to check myself and make sure I’m not totally wrong.

So, my GF’s mom had her heat pump serviced, and then the thermostat started flaking out. I’m kind of sure that the service dude messed something up, but whatever, that’s not what this is about. Let’s pretend he didn’t.

Anyway, the answer from the service dude to deal with this, is to replace the thermostat. They don’t make the one that’s on there now (which is actually a fairly new, wi-fi-enabled Lennox thermostat), so they want to replace it with an even newer, fancier, S20 model.

Ok, so I looked this up, and I’m pretty sure this is what they want to install:

Ok, so a few things here:

  1. I’m pretty sure this is the most expensive thermostat you can possibly buy.
  2. Despite the thermostat being $860 on Amazon, they want to charge her mom $1800 to install this. So, approximately a THOUSAND dollars in labor as far as I can tell.

Now, this is what made me first get involved, because I heard in passing that they were getting the thermostat replaced, and that it was going to cost $1800, and I was like, “WTF is going on in that termostat to cost eighteen hundred freaking dollars?”

In my mind, I’ve replaced my own thermostat a few times… the first time to replace the original ancient analog one that came with the house, and the second time just to get a slightly upgraded one… and both times, I didn’t spend more than $50. Because… it’s a thermostat. It’s not complex, right?

Now, I realize that you can get fancier ones now, but ultimately, her mom doesn’t actually use any of those features. Indeed, I don’t think she even uses the programmable aspects at all. She pretty much just sets it to the temperature she wants it to be, whenever she wants it to be that temperature.

So, here are my questions:

  1. This company is totally trying to scam her, right? In my mind, I cannot see how it could possibly cost $1800 to replace a thermostat. Am I wrong?
  2. She doesn’t actually need a fancy thermostat at all, right? She could do with a cheap, non-programable one? Definitely doesn’t need the most expensive one you can buy, with bullshit like geofencing and crap that she will literally never use.
  3. Now, the one thing that I am not familiar with through my personal experience, is that she has a heat pump… They’re not as common here in the NE, as it gets much colder here, so we have real heating systems… but I know that heat pumps are kind of different in some ways. Do heat pumps need thermostats that… I dunno, have magical diamonds in them or something else that makes them cost way more? I don’t see how this could be, but I figured I’d ask. From looking on the DOE’s site, apparently they don’t even recommend programmable thermostats for heat pumps at all, as apparently when in heater mode, lowering the temperature can lower the efficiency of the heat pump, and then counter the savings of lowering the target temp, so it ends up being a waste of time.

Anyways, someone explain to me how I’m wrong here, because frankly I’m kind of pissed, thinking that this HVAC company is trying to rip off this super nice little old lady.

Something about this smells wrong. Get a quote from someone else in your area who works with the equipment that is installed. I always dealt with commercial subs and this wouldn’t fly commercially, unless things have changed in the last 5 years.

I don’t know if they are trying to scam her, but it does sound like it. We had our boiler replaced recently (in the Netherlands), which included a new thermostat, and we paid less than 1800 euro’s for the entire job (149 euro’s for the thermostat, I think), including installation (which, for the thermostat, isn’t much more than removing the old one and attaching the new one). I’m sure there are more elaborate (and thus more expensive) models, but if your mother in law (to be ;-) ) doesn’t use any of the extra options, they shouldn’t offer her one of those.
As to part 3: I really don’t know. But they should be able to explain this to you then, and you could get a second opinion on that.

Long story short: I would check that they aren’t replacing the entire boiler (the price would make sense then, from my Dutch perspective anyway). If it really is just the thermostat, I would definitely ask another company…

It looks like you do need a mildly more expensive thermostat to properly have all the wires and software for a heat pump, but they are still well within the range of $150 to $200 and you generally just have to connect wires that are already in the wall, then go through some extra steps to setup the pump.

In the worst case they might have to run a power line to handle a smarter thermostat. Seems pretty crazy for $1800.

Someone has to pop off the old thermostat and check the wires and what terminals they go to. Its super easy to do. Then I’d suggest this thermostat , its low priced, reliable, and easy to use. (if it is compatible)

Check wires and see if it works with her heat pump setup.
https://webapps.emerson.com/resources/wire-picker.aspx

My go to recommendation, that my 85 year old mother can use without question:

RE: that $1800 estimate. She can always ask the repair person for an itemized estimate for the replacement. That sounds like they are taking advantage of an elderly person.

That sounds too expensive. I’ve had heat pumps before and I’m not aware that they need any special dispensation for a thermostat. I have a hard time believing it’s not a standard installation at this point in time.

One thing you could do is call another heating guy and ask him how much to install the specific thermostat model they wanna put in if you provide it for him. That would give you an idea as to what a reasonable labor cost would be.

Agree with the above, there’s no way it should cost that much. Even top-end Nest and such don’t get close to that cost.

I’d get a 3rd party involved. Get outside bids.

Yeah, that’s what I thought… Like I said, I’ve replaced my own thermostat before. It’s a trivial job.

And yeah, it really is JUST for the thermostat. They said it’d only take an hour to an hour and a half. There’s no rational reason for them to be charging $1800.

  1. They do not need the thermostat the company is pitching them… they don’t need all the fancy smart home stuff, as they never use it.
  2. Even if they did want to buy that one, the idea of charging $1000 over retail for it is insane.

There is a line run from the HVAC/Heat Pump to where the thermostat sits. It’s multi-cable, as noted and provides voltage to run a thermostat, assuming digital, etc. When you wrote this:

… somewhere in the realm of possibility is that the wiring could have been damaged, old, flaky, etc.

I doubt it, but that’s about the only thing I can think of. But even still, you could buy a thermostat, try to install it for her, and even if you fail, call a company to come install the thermostat YOU BOUGHT for you. It would still be cheaper than that quote.

It certainly smells like a scam. I have an Ecobee smart thermostat and even it was only around $300. It controls heat pump and AC. Her mom might actually enjoy a programmable schedule or sensor that knows when home/away, but that’s beside the point. There are a number of cheap models that would work fine. You don’t have to have a branded thermostat the same as your unit.

Yeah, this is exactly what I’m thinking.

See, they didn’t say they needed to fix the wiring run. They said the problem was the thermostat itself, and that it needed to just be replaced.

And also, since they said it’d take 1-1.5 hours… that’s the labor. It doesn’t matter if they are running a new line or whatever. And no one charges $1k an hour for labor.

But like you said… My thought is just to buy a normal thermostat, and install it… because I know how to do it, and it’s not hard.

Yeah, I agree with the others that this is not right. Replacing a thermostat, even for the fanciest heat pump, is trivial. Most thermostats sold these days that aren’t specifically for radiant heating will work with a heat pump. You don’t need a wifi or other kind of smart thermostat unless you actually want one.

As you’ve done it already you probably know to replace a thermostat all you need to do it pop off the cover and make note of which wires go into which little screw terminal. Terminals are usually clearly marked with like “C, RH, RC, Y, Y1, Y2, G” etc. New thermostats usually come with little stick on labels for you to wrap around the wires so you don’t lose track. You pull the wires, pop the unit off the wall, stick the new one on, and then put all the wires back in the terminals of the same label. Maybe you have to look up in the manual that “R” on your old one is “R1” on the new one.

There’s one hot wire, but it’s just 24v DC. It’s always labeled “C” (common). So while one should always turn off the power first, if you forget it’s not a big shock. Not all systems have a “C” wire so some thermostats are battery operated.

And unlike replacing light switches once you have everything hooked up you don’t have to marvel at how the prior guy fit 20 miles of cable in the back of the box as you’re trying to stuff it all back in there (before deciding screw it and cutting a few miles out).

I’m in the same boat – heat pump and AC controlled by an Ecobee. Thermostat was $200 (on sale last year for Black Friday). Installation, if all the wires are there, should be $150 or less, depending on the area; I’m in the DC area, where any time a truck rolls it costs $150.

If the wires need to be run, that’s a different issue, but you said she previously had a smart thermostat. That likely means all the wires are already there. I would go to another company for a quote, because it wouldn’t surprise me at all if her old thermostat would do the job just fine.

$1800 for a thermostat installed is absolutely insane.

Aleck

That quote sure doesn’t smell right. I had a new furnace put in a couple of years ago and opted for a basic programmable thermostat. I was told that in the future if I wanted to upgrade, they could sell me fancier one and installation would be the same cost as a service call ($150 CAD).

For $1800 that better come with a furnace.