The problem is the rest of the game after that. Undead Burg, Sen’s Fortress, and Anor Londo are all amazing, but the rest doesn’t measure up to even the worst areas in Demon’s Souls.
As for amazing moments, I’ll take the entire Tower of Latria, in particular 3-1 and specifically the transition between 3-1 and 3-2 over anything Demon’s Souls has to offer.
I like The Painted World, especially if you don’t know what’s coming in advance. And the Crystal Caves are a pretty good mindfuck, even if it’s a bit of a one trick pony. But for most of the others, I agree.
My Dark Souls run is stalled right before Lost Izalith, IIRC. Just ran out of steam. Although, I took almost a year off from Demon’s Souls before I went back in to finally finish it, so I may end up doing the same. In Dark Souls, I’m getting completionist fever, where I want to get as many items, etc as possible so I don’t have to re-do it in new game+. So, I need to take enough time for that to wear off.
Lost Izalith is a real low point, yes.
I think Demon’s Souls has a more consistent quality but the highs are higher and the lows are lower in Dark Souls in my opinion.
Duke’s Archive and New Londo are also great in Dark Souls. I even like Tomb of Giants conceptionally, although it’s cheap as hell.
Somewhere we had this discussion already in the Dark Souls threads.
Yup, probably.
I do want to say that my other, secret, reason for not finishing Dark Souls is that from what I understand of the story, the proper thing to do it to go full on scorched earth, and kill all the gods before dropping the mic and leaving. But I don’t really want to do that.
HRose
2765
I’m now playing this for the first time without having read much about it, and it’s interesting going to read the beginning of this thread and see pretty much the same reaction I had.
I’m about 11 hours in. Have finished 1.1, 1.2 and 2.1. My complaint is… The game is too easy!
Yesterday I fought the spider thing and I killed it on the very first attempt. It wasn’t even really hard, it just required keeping the shield up at all times and using herbs a lot. I almost never died in the whole 2.1 besides a few deaths in a row when I got trapped in a corner surrounded by fire gekos (till I figured out that I should use a pike to spit them all).
I also killed the red eyes knight in 1.1 a number of times, thought it’s hilarious how at times I get locked in a death cycle that makes me retry a bunch of times before I can finally defeat him again.
The difficulty design in the game is essentially PERFECT, based on three points:
- You die a lot, but this also forced you getting patterns imprinted in your soul. You are essentially forced to get better and you will.
- Repetition also usually leads to collect more stuff and souls. This creates a mitigating mechanic on the difficulty, since your character also improves, giving you more options.
- The real roadblocks are never mandatory. For example the demon knight in 1.2 is a tough encounter, but it’s also an optional one since you can always visit the other worlds first, and get better before you try again.
So you die a lot, but you don’t really get stuck.
The only complaint I have is that sometimes the game works in counterintuitive ways. For example I didn’t understand when the other worlds opened, or why I couldn’t cross the big door after I defeated the boss knight. I thought the knight guy was mandatory and the second world would open only after the first was over. And I remember that at some point I checked and the other worlds were sealed.
So there are times in the game when options open up, but you aren’t aware they have.
At the moment I love the game so much that my only worries is that it’s “too short” and “too easy” ;)
The real difficulty spikes I had were due to stuff that wasn’t required, like killing the red eyed knight with a fresh character, or the boss knight (that at the beginning was hard even to REACH, since I kept dying to the blue eyed knights and crossbowmen that guard the entrance. now it’s cakewalk).
Keep going. 1.1, 1.2 and 2.1 are pretty easy. Try 3.1 and 3.2 for a jolly good asskicking. Also 5.1 and especially 5.2 are pretty rugged.
I can’t take anyone seriously who claims that Demon’s Souls is easy.
It’s such a stupid thing to say.
There’s a difference between saying a game is easy - and that parts of the game are “pretty easy” with a context that includes parts that are harder.
Yes, and…?
He says “The game is too easy”. Maybe you missed it.
Yes, and…?
He says “The game is too easy”. Maybe you missed it.
Ah, yeah - I thought you were referring to the post immediately above yours - that also spoke about parts being easy.
In that case, I agree it’s a pretty silly statement - unless of course the person in question never found the game challenging or demanding in any way - at any point.
Well, he died a lot - according to himself. But it’s too easy!
Well, he also said the difficulty was perfect - and now that I’ve read his post, I think I understand his meaning just fine.
That said, I still think calling the game too easy is not only illogical - it’s also plain silly given his experience :)
You can get very good at the game - just like any (hard) game - no doubt about it.
Yeah, but some games don’t play fair with how they challenge you. Too many random elements (need I mention champion/elite packs in D3).
Demon’s Souls plays very fair - at least in my mind, and I think that’s what his point was.
Roughly translated = It’s brutally hard if you’re not paying attention and while you’re learning the game. But with a certain investment - the game becomes predictably easy - but it does not forgive not paying attention, ever.
Jape
2775
Pretty much this. I think top reason why people die (and throw their controllers) in Demon’s Souls is impatience.
Also, I think HRose might have played Dark Souls first? After you have some experience in that combat system (which is similar enough that playing either helps), it’s night and day how different the game feels.
After beating Demon’s Souls, if you start a new character you can cruise through 1-1 like it’s nothing thanks to familiarity with the level and the systems.
So, yes, hard but fair. It has a very steep learning curve, and doesn’t help you up it at all, but it’s never actually intractable. I’ve always maintained that it’s more punishing than hard, if that makes sense, because it always allows you to set your own pace. Contrast with something like Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden, where if you can’t handle an encounter, you’re just SOL. I think I still can’t safely kill the katana red-eye skeleton in 4-2 (?), but I know that it’s totally possible.
HRose
2777
I was half joking with my comment.
I haven’t played DS, but my point was that at the beginning of the game I was always on edge and died hundreds of times, but in doing 2.1, including the boss, I only died a few times without really encountering anything really hard. The place was big, but exploration was relatively effortless this time. Hence “I worry it’s too easy” (and too short).
It was simply because I’m loving the game and don’t want it any different.
Also consider that I’m not a good player. I’m usually average. By reputation this game should have been much harder.
Nah, 2.1 is pretty easy. So is 2.2 except for Flameluker, who is brutal to solo. And in reality patience is the true challenge of DS. As long as you can keep your cool and not try to rush things there are very few (Meat Cleaver Black Phantom) things in DS that are really tough. Of course, that game is sooo good at making you panic. :)
Yup. Also, as noted above, come back after 5-1, 5-2 and tell us if you still think it’s easy. :)
HRose
2780
So I’m still playing this.
There are a few things that are not exactly flawless design even if they don’t diminish the game, but:
2.2 is extremely annoying. There’s a lot of platform jumping and I died a million of times mostly because of twitchy controls. I also really don’t like the repeated jumping in the dark and fail to understand where you’re supposed to go. So worst level thus far.
3.1 this is Tower of Latria. Based on reputation I expected something great, but it was kinda annoying. The atmosphere is great but it does rely into annoying mechanics: extremely crammed corridors, and non-hostile guys that crowd around you JUST SO your targeting gets messed.
It also seems to me the game is funneling me into using just one weapon. It seems I can’t use nothing but the winged spear. For example in 3.1 those cultists with the bells. I tried once using the rapiers you find in the level but they just don’t hit enough to kill the cultist lashes back. Instead the winged spear stuns the monster every other attack, which means that if I’m the first to attack then I risk nothing.
Other annoying mechanics: 3.1 stopped entirely dropping healing herbs. I’ve died countless times here, but now I have everything memorized and the only hurdle is killing the boss. To kill the mob I need a HUGE number of bolts and lots of herbs. Which means that if I fail one attempt I have to pass an hour farming things in previous levels. Then have one try, maybe two.
So summarizing my current complaints:
- It seems healing herbs stop dropping in later levels, forcing me to go back only to farm them
- The winged spear is currently overpowered (it staggers and hits straight ahead, so useful in crammed places), at the expense of variety
- Platform jumping is horrible as in every other game
- Tower of Latria way to crammed and annoying to be considered the best zone in the game
