Get a sweet puppy with a nice, low, intimidating bark. The dogs we had growing up probably wouldn’t have done a damn thing to anyone who actually broke in, but they had the kind of bark that terrifies people. Also excellent for getting rid of door to door salesmen.
Great advice, very true, and I would also like to add that in most places I know of if you fire on a potential burglar and kill him it is you who will be facing a heap of legal shit and potential jail time. Welcome to the United States justice system, which is quite broken. Criminals have the right to life too, and your property. Sorry.
Criminals have the right to life too, and your property. Sorry
Call me a pinko commie, but I think citizen administered death penalty without trial to be a bit harsh for breaking and entering, especially when you can embezzle billions of dollars from pension funds etc for much less punishment.
Now that we’ve inevitably got on to the subject of where to place the Phalanx system to get a decent arc of fire across the patio, I’d suggest that the biggest single thing he can do to prevent getting robbed again is to lock the patio door when he leaves the house.
Seems to me he can have the worlds biggest personal armoury of guns, the highest technology security system, ponds full of alligators and what not, but they’re all worth crap if he’s getting robbed because he’s out and forgot to lock the door. Maybe some claymores in the rosebushes by the patio door might help combat that, but if you can’t remember to lock the door are you really going to remember where the tripwires are?
Great advice, very true, and I would also like to add that in most places I know of if you fire on a potential burglar and kill him it is you who will be facing a heap of legal shit and potential jail time. Welcome to the United States justice system, which is quite broken. Criminals have the right to life too, and your property. Sorry.[/quote]
A year or so ago this line of discussion exploded into a full-tilt Qt3 slap fight. Somebody link to it! The summary of my argument is: I’d rather my family see me in court defending my actions against a burglar than see me lowered into a six foot hole. Maybe that’s simplistic, but to Hell with not protecting myself because I might be subjected to absurdist litigation.
A year or so ago this line of discussion exploded into a full-tilt Qt3 slap fight.
My car was burglarized while I was in San Fran this weekend. Someone, probably a transient, jimmied a lock and took my large travelbag full of all my clothes and emptied out my console (sunglasses, change, etc). Just wrote a check for $40 to replace the damn gate clicker at my apartments.
As for home protection, there simply is no better choice than a shotgun. There’s a number of reasons for this:
- inexpensive: a good legal shotgun will only run you about $100 and you don’t have to have a waiting period for it.
- spread shot: they say to expect to be half as good as your best day on the range when you just got startled up at 2am by the sound of breaking glass, so why not shoot something which doesn’t have to be spot on.
- impenetrable: select the right type of ammo and you will not penetrate a wall in your home.
- intimidation: all you have to do is rack that thing loudly, and a burglar will bail before you even see him.
- easy to use: there are almost no moving parts and complex gadgets so jams will be very uncommon, and anyone can point and pull a trigger like in the movies.
- lethality: you can select the ammo type to either kill or disable an invader for your own moral reasons; anything from rocksalt to heavy buckshot.
There’s no reason to defend a home with a pistol. One of my instructor’s mantras is: the only reason we carry pistols on the street is because you can’t easily conceal a rifle. Pepper spray can piss off.
Personally, I don’t much care for the idea of shooting someone to maim or injure. Whether you kill him or not, the law says you are using lethal force and you are treated the same. But you open yourself up far more to civil liability if the guy is around at your civil trial (not criminal; I’m talking about when he sues your ass) dressed up in a Sunday suit with a sad story about how he grew up without a father.
The fact is, though, that if you are going to make the decision to own a firearm of any kind (pistol, shotgun, rifle, etc) you absolutely must be trained to use it or it is useless. What’s the point of owning one if you don’t know how to use it? At most you can be like the occasional anecdote of the little old lady who has a shotgun or pistol with no ammo, but who racks the slide or waves the laser pointer around in an attempt to perform #4 from my list above. I hope it works, God knows I do, but if it doesn’t you’re in trouble. Kevin’s teacher’s idea about locking it up in the daytime and unlocking at night to add a great amount of home safety is also excellent.
Maybe if you don’t mind keeping a shotgun in your bedroom. Some of us keep the rifles locked in the rifle cabinet. You’ll also be putting up new drywall if you ever have to fire it, not to mention any other collateral damage you cause. I’ll take the precision, thanks.
Say someone grabs one of your kids, what are you going to do with a shotgun?
What do you do, hotshot? What do you do?
What do you do, hotshot? What do you do?[/quote]
A hypothetical, maybe he’s holding your priceless Renoir. I know I’m not going to want a shotgun in either situation.
I own and use shotguns, but to claim that they are the ideal for home defense and that a handgun has no place in that role is absurd.
So you guys would shoot at someone holding your kid with a pistol, but not with a shotgun? There’s got to be some irony in that.
You know, even in a large room (say 20 feet away from the attacker), your shotgun shot is only going to be dispersed about 8 inches around (depending on shot, barrel length, etc). It doesn’t come out of the barrel and immediately form a cloud. I’d rather aim a foot to one side of the attacker and let blast than take my chances with a pee shooter. He’s standing behind the kid? Aim just above his head. He’s holding the kid up? Shoot for a lower leg. I definitely wouldn’t bet my family on my ability to hit something small like a leg at 2am.
By the way, if I’m firing ammo off in my house it’s for a good reason and I couldn’t get two shits about replacing some drywall. I mean that’s like in a totally different fucking galaxy, Raife. Heheh.
What do you do, hotshot? What do you do?[/quote]
A hypothetical, maybe he’s holding your priceless Renoir. I know I’m not going to want a shotgun in either situation.[/quote]
It’s a quote from Speed. I don’t think you got the reference :wink:
It depends on the situation and degree of threat. In those circumstances, yes, if I have to take a shot I’m going to want the handgun.
That’s pea shooter. If you’re interested in pee shooters, talk to Elhajj. Just because a weapon is a handgun doesn’t mean lacks stopping power. I certainly would trust my skill with a handgun over aiming to the side of an attacker and “letting blast.”
Oh, heh. Gotcha.
Well Thank God you corrected my spelling of pea. It was a pun anyways, I suppose lost by the fact that I had, at first, called the pistol a piss-shooter. See it went pis-tol => piss shooter => pee shooter.
Anyways as I also said in my original post, it’s a matter of comfort level with your skill at arms. If you feel comfortable that you could hit the bastard in a small target area (ie not center of mass) with one shot before he sticks a knife in your kid’s neck, good for you. I don’t, that’s all. Plus I prefer to have the other five advantages of a shotgun working in my favor.
In complete fairness, however, we’re really stretching the scenario from the original thread to one type of absolute worst case now. We’ve escalated a “hope they aren’t home” burglar to essentially an armed kidnapper with intent to inflict harm.
I’m still confused as to what use these guns are going to be given that he was out at the time. Or are we suggesting he gets that kid to make him a turret and then we can argue whether he mounts pepper spray, a pistol or a shotgun on it?
Hey, sure. Anytime.
Actually, you didn’t. Here’s what you said:
It’s good to see you’ve come around, though. Shotguns are fine. Like I said, I own and use them. Home defense is just not the reason. Is home defense a legitimate use for a shotgun? Sure.
They wouldn’t have had any effect, except to have potentially been stolen. Also, there’s no reason to defend a home with a computer-controlled sentry gun. Or a nuclear missile.
jesus christ… this thread has gone from a discussion about robbery to abduction.
A thief is there to steal, take money/valuables. Not abduct people. For the most part I believe a burgler is looking for unoccupied houses. Why on earth a thief would hit a house with people home is utter stupidity, most likely they are looking for drug money… if that’s the case do you really want to confront a thug hopped up on some drug??
I vaguely remember reading somewhere about how the majority of injuries during a robbery are from houses that HAVE a firearm on the premises. Bringing out a guy, any gun, escalates the situation and makes it that much more likely for things to turn from bad, to worse.
You’ll have more luck yelling “I’ve already called the police, they are on the way right now.”
I’m not a pacifist by any means, but I also don’t want to get shot, nor anyone else in my house shot…
Not without a gat, Homeboy. Also, people who bust into your house don’t wear safety vests with BURGLAR stenciled on them. Maybe the dude is there to rape your wife and abduct your kids. Sound crazy? You know what else sounds crazy? Some motherfucker busting into my house when I’m home. I’m not going to confront him, you are correct. I’m going to blow him out of his socks. And nothin’ against shifty’s shotgun tactics, but with a handgun, I’d stay low and aim up towards the chest/head. If you miss, the bullet angles up into the ceiling instead of straight through a wall into an adjacent room or outside. Also, if the robber is himself strapped, he’ll shoot back and it’ll go over your head. Just don’t miss, stupid.
I vaguely remember reading somewhere about how the majority of injuries during a robbery are from houses that HAVE a firearm on the premises. Bringing out a guy, any gun, escalates the situation and makes it that much more likely for things to turn from bad, to worse.
You’ll have more luck yelling “I’ve already called the police, they are on the way right now.”
I’m not a pacifist by any means, but I also don’t want to get shot, nor anyone else in my house shot…
No offense, but to Hell with your anecdotal stats. What are we supposed to use man, harsh language? You might be right, in that your typical American dipshit will utterly bung things up vis a vis home defense. Don’t let the ineptitude of your average American sway your decisions regarding personal safety. Not this cracker. I gots me my CCW. I had a scare back in January when my roommate at the time thought someone was busting in (it was the wind). I passed the acid test, I didn’t like flip out and empty a whole clip into the coat rack or whatever. I yelled I HAVE A FUCKING GUN AND I HAVE ALREADY CALLED THE POLICE. GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE. I never raised the gun, since my roommate was clowning around with a baseball bat. We checked every room, outside. The wind had blown the screen off the guest bedroom window and it was dancing on the roof and scraping on the wall adjoining my roommate’s bedroom.
Just this week some dude broke into this guy’s house here in Vegas, while he was home. He shot the dude dead. No crazy wrestling for the gun or the daughter held at knifepoint or what the Hell ever. Just plenty of dead burglar. Next up, sports with Dave McCann!
Maybe the dude is there to rape your wife and abduct your kids.
I’m having a hard time digging up the number, but if I remember correctly, the chance of this happening is about the same as getting hit by a meteor. The vast, vast majority of rapes are someone you know at home or someone you don’t know not at home.
That’s great. Meanwhile, kids do get kidnapped and wives do get raped, and houses do get robbed when people are home.
Screw guns, get a golf club.
Here is the SelfishGene Home Tactical Combat Guide:
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Keep outdoors well lit, indoors unlit. It’s almost impossible to see through windows at night from outside looking in if the inside is pitch black and there are lights around the window or in the near vicinity. You have to really sit there and peer in. Giving the advantage to the defender. Use motion activated lights. If you here anything scurrying around turn the lights on outside, not inside.
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Guns can misfire, jam, ect. Also using a gun escalates a situation into a “flee, fight, or die” decision for the “perp”. The biggest problem with guns, however, is where to keep them. Unless you’re prepared to keep them locked in the day, and take them out, load them, and hide them nearby or under your pillow, then put them back in the safe, every single day, my money is on them being stolen far more frequently than they being used to stop a crime. I know TONS of people with guns, and i haven’t heard one story of them stopping anything but i know plenty that have been stolen. Although i have been in a situation where i seriously thought i’d be using one.
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So use a golf club. Its light and one good whack will knock the snot out of any would be evil-doer. Plus if you leave it near the bed hardly anyone will notice.
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Get an alarm system.
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Get a dog (back up alarm system). Dogs freak some people out beyond any sort of logical appraisal of their threat.
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Screens on all the windows. You don’t need bars, but just have a latch on the inside. Sure they could cut through, but it’s just one more obstacle.
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If you city allows it, do like the Mexicans do and cement cut glass along the top edges of all your walls. Most cities won’t let you and if they let you they’ll warn you that the guy jumping your fence will sue you for “entrapment”, so it’s your call.