Are we breeding civil, substantive racists and misogynists?

Yeah @timex is wildly mischaracterizing that whole situation. Gman was / is a paid, professional right wing partisan, writing for extremist sites like Breitbart, and came here expressly to troll politics exclusively in a professional capacity.

This was not a gamer expressing a few political opinions now and then. The whole thing was in extremely bad faith from the start. It was textbook bad faith.

And without good faith — when you are dealing with a hardcore political extremist flack, working in a paid capacity for extremist political orgs —discussion is pointless.

You have no way of knowing that. You have no evidence that is the case, at least that I’ve seen.

This is not a requirement to participate in this forum.

The P&R forum here is interesting on its own, and i would not fault someone for coming here and exclusively participating in it.

The way this community responded to the sudden presence of white supremacy surprised me, but that is not one person or even one viewpoint. It’s an eye-opener of how we got this place at a national level.

I think it’s always been a mistake to think that bigots and racists are the least of us, that Phds and Scientists and really smart people are just somehow ignorant and if you educate them more than they already are somehow they will be less vile. We usually just wind up with smarter bigots.

He did partially because he doesn’t recognize it for what it is. This isn’t unique to Timex or this board. This a problem on a national level. There several people here who validated that guys positions and his views. And some did because he lined them up to. He walked people around in circles until he got them to agree on his topical shifts which he uses a foundation to validate his views of the world. He didn’t succeed every time, but he doesn’t have to. It’s what the professionals do, it’s what they’re trained to do. Get a seat a table, avoid moderation by avoiding specific words, pretend to be polite while you talk about others as inferiors. You don’t have to win an argument, heck that is often not the goal. All you have to do is get agreements on some specific points, often after you shift the topic until you’re not even on topic anymore, and you keep doing that until you legitimize yourself.

He also said he sent others here, so I expect more.

White supremacy stays alive not by feeding itself, sure they recruit, but as long they can get ears, they can get agreements on whatever stats they often make-up… it keeps the ball rolling.

The fact is we have tried Timex’s way for decades. He wants to keep doing it. Several want to keep doing it largely because the consequence of being wrong has not and will continue not to be his problem. Yeah, there are feel good articles about people who take the punch, turn the other cheek, and sit down and have lunch with the person who just assaulted them… good for them. Look around… how many openly racist and bigots are running, right now in 2018. Is this winning?

But you aren’t even open to considering, for even one second, that your view is mistaken in any way. And merely questioning you about it results in you calling me a white supremacist.

I am not calling you a white supremacist, but I am not wrong about him. And supporting him and his approach is supporting white supremacy because he is a part of white supremacy, and not only that, he is part of their machine, as a profession. And I knew before Tom told us. Did you?

How can you possibly know that? You talked to him in a forum for like a week.

Yeah, neat question right? How did I know… I wonder, how would I recognize patterns and his approach and why did Tom mention others warned him about the same thing. How did some people know and others didn’t… but you don’t really want to know do you because your second sentence says you don’t really want to know. You just think some of us recognizing what he was doing was just a fluke.

Timex (and others, for that matter), I’d like to offer to you some of the best advice I ever received. In topics like these, when a member of an historically oppressed or marginalized group is telling you about their experience, don’t argue, just listen. You’re not going to get very far with the vigourous debate style of dialog even with the best of intentions. Just listen and seek to understand their point of view.

Do you read the stuff you write, and not realize that it’s insulting? Or are you being insulting intentionally?

This is the stuff i was talking about before. There are a couple times where i flew off the handle and called you on it, but do you have any idea how frequently you have said stuff like this to me? Cause it’s like a million times. And it’s not just me.

It’s not fair to me, and you are treating me poorly and I try hard to just let it go, but you keep doing it. And the question becomes, if you treat me poorly, why should i care of anyone else treats you poorly? Don’t get me wrong, i still do, but you make it harder.

I’m not saying this to berate you. I’m just trying to get you to see that you are employing the exact things that you are accusing me of. Instead of trying to understand where I’m coming from, you are just imposing your own imagined view of my perspective, and then attacking that person.

If i truly didn’t care about your reasoning, why would i even be taking to you?

I don’t know why you’re asking. Because I told you I knew. I mentioned several when I talked about him in the topics he was active in that I knew. And you’re still questioning me, you actually ask m how can you possibly know that, and because that’s not enough of a question, you want to mention the time-frame. What answer can I possibly give you to that question that you will accept. I don’t think there is one.

Of course I say it often with you. You refuse accept that I am not going to fit into some sort of perfect minority mold that you have concocted in your head. And since you hold me to these ridiculous standards, standards that you don’t hold anyone else to, you pretty much 100% of the time doubt my experiences with endless requests to prove them.

How do I prove them Timex?

But that makes no sense.

It implies that Nesrie fully understands everyone else’s experience, and she won’t benefit from talking about it. It also means that we can’t get any kind of deeper understanding beyond a lecture.

Why can’t we talk about it like anything else?

What standards do i hold you to that I don’t hold everyone to? Calling you out for treating people poorly? I’ve done that to a bunch of other folks. I’ve called trigger on it, i think i called wumpus on it, various other folks. Jesus, you think I said that to you because you are black? REALLY?

Because it’s not like everything else. She has a unique perspective that you will never experience. You can, however, learn to better understand it. Listening is a far more effective means for that than challenging. On other topics, the opposite may be true, but not this.

Because there people that will type in CAPS with GIFs fuck you, scew off, all over the place in the midst of their heated arguments around here. And where are you? Where are you chasing them down telling them how rude they are, jumping into the middle of their arguments out of nowhere? Post policing every argument every heated exchange… no, no you don’t do that to them. You’ve got this weird thing about me. I don’t what it is, but no you are not equally policing this whole site and every member on it.

Everyone has a unique experience. What you are suggesting here is that we can’t talk about anything.

Sure we do. On his public profile, out of 400 initial posts, only four of them were about anything other than professional paid hard core right wing extremist writer talking points. Repeated ad nauseam, over and over, every hour of every day.

Don’t get me wrong, a fun rehash of “don’t all lives matter, if ya reallllllllly think about it?” is just a delight for the whole community.

So you think that he was, professionally, posting in our P&R forum for… What? What was the awesome endgame for him professionally there? Was he some kind of mole? Was Breitbart trying to take down the left wing Juggernaut that is quarter to three?

That just didn’t make any sense to me.

It’s not one-size-fits-all. Different techniques for different situations. If you don’t yet understand why this one is different, then you really, really need to just listen for a while.

Fine. Then it will just get buried under posts about stuff that we are allowed to talk about.

Whatever his reason and whatever his cause, he was an awful poster shitting up every thread on one of his pet topics with disingenuous nonsense ad infinitum.