Are you fan enough for Crusader Kings 2?

So I was poking around in both EUIV and CK2 today. My son came over to see what the colorful maps were since this was clearly very much not WoW. He’s not big on strategy games in general, but heck if he didn’t sit with me for over an hour while we randomly clicked on stuff in CK2 trying to … who knows what (I very much don’t know what I’m doing yet, I’m still in the “let’s see if I can find that menu” phase). I’m not great with the whole roleplay a character bit, but with the two of us it was an absolute blast. At only $10, it probably half-way paid for itself just from that alone. I wasn’t sure how to justify to myself having bought both games back to back, but that guilt is gone.

Arranged marriages and assassination plots. Bringing families together. Thanks Paradox!

I would say:

Leave all the DLC on, but stick to being a Catholic ruler in Europe or a non-Muslim Indian ruler. They have the simplest game mechanics. (+ the indians can give you a taste of raiding).

The only one I default would say turn off is Sunset Invasion. It is fun for some, but not one I would suggest playing all, or even most of, the time.

Thanks for the DLC help. Yea, I didn’t even buy Sunset Invasion because it didn’t seem appealing to me.

I have all the DLC and I didn’t even know what that particular one did. I found out the hard way when I had a perfectly good game totally ruined by cheesemongers derping all over my land. I don’t see myself ever turning it back on.

Yes, sorry, I didn’t mean SI. Of the ones you have, leave them all one. :)

I think it’s a mistake for Paradox to even allow Sunset Invasion to be on at start up without a giant warning box saying “ARE YOU SURE?”. I can’t imagine how many people just buy lots of dlc, leave it all on and then wtf mexican mongols.

I just started the learning scenario and immediately got a ‘Work Bores Me’ event with choices to go hunting or order a new bird. Each has a 50% chance for a good and bad result, but it isn’t obvious what that good or bad result can be. In general I like to make informed decisions when playing strategy games.

Do you recommend that I try and lookup the possible results for the choices, or just pick one and discover them through playing (i.e. pick hunting this time and then select buy new bird the next time). My guess is that maybe hunting can give you some positive trait to make you stronger, or maybe get injured or killed.

I say just pick whatever you feel like. There’s many events, some you might only ever see once, so it might not even be possible to do the other option next time!

I’ve got a question regarding heirs because I think that is probably the most confusing aspect of the game. In the learning scenario you start off as King Leon II of Leon. Inheritance law is agnatic-cognatic gavelkind. I understand it this much so far.

The oldest child, male or female will inherit the major title. The rest of the titles are split between the rest of the children (I’m assuming the remaining oldest gets the best remaining title). Since he has no children, it defaults to Primogeniture. So since there are no children everything goes to the most senior dynasty member (had to look that up in the wiki since the tooltips didn’t mention what happens for primogeniture with no kids).

So, I can either get married and have kids so they inherit my titles or I can not have kids and let the King of Castille inherit the title and consolidate our holdings. Since his demesne size if 3/5 and mine is 3/4, I assume if I died he would have 6/5, one more than his max so he would have to give one away to avoid any penalties, right? In general isn’t it good to consolidate the holdings so my guy gets more land?

Another confusing part is that his demesne is Soria, Palencia and Castrobarte as reported on his realm tree. Soria is a county on the map. Castrobarte is a barony in the county of Burgos. I have no idea where the barony of Palencia is. If I search for it is centers the map, but I still can’t find it. I’ve selected all of the nearby counties and hovered over the holdings within them. No Palenca.

How do i go about understanding all of this? Does it matter?

There is no Palencia, maybe there used to be a province with that name in some older version. It will probably fix itself on a month/year change or after you reload the game.

It’s a good idea to hold on to a core demesne, ideally a bunch of high tax provinces with plenty of build spots for expansion.

Since it’s just a tutorial game you could kill your character with a console command and see what happens. IIRC it’s ‘kill charId’,‘charinfo 1’ to see character ids when you hover your cursor over them.

Agnatic-cognatic will pass everything to males, females only inherit if there are no available male children. So the highest title would pass to your oldest son, then the rest would be divvied up among your sons, and if you only have one son but multiple daughters the son would get everything.
Unless you want to powergame it, gavelkind is a pain in the ass no matter how you slice it.

He would end up 6/5, yes. And he would have to give one away to remove the penalty for being over his max demesne. And in general it’s good to consolidate holdings (Like Zombo says, high tax provinces are generally what you want ideally but it won’t be an absolutely massive difference).

Just loaded up the learning scenario (Jesus, I didn’t know CK2 had that many tutorials) to see what was up with this Palencia nonsense. Palencia is the name of the county capital of Burgos. Unlike most counties, the capital for Burgos isn’t named Burgos. The city of Burgos exists in Burgos, but castles take the capital spot.

In the event you do start playing as the king of Castile and go over your demesne limit, generally the holding you would want to give away would be a barony, and more specifically non-castle holdings if available (Which you wouldn’t have in this case as both kings only hold castles). Cities tend to provide more gold, churches a mix, and castles the most troops. On the whole having larger levvies is far more important. In this case you’d still want to make sure to give away a barony castle as opposed to a county title/castle, simply because the county title would make the people directly under you in the baronies your vassals and they’d directly be supplying you troops and money, whereas with a barony castle you’re only getting the usefulness out of that single holding itself with nothing else trickling up for you.

Edit: And another tip if you stay with gavelkind succession, ESPECIALLY if you die and everything moves to the king of Castile and you start playing him, try to maintain a single title of your highest layer. In this case, kingdoms. That way the oldest heir at least gets to shove his siblings around and successions are less dramatic (Although with gavelkind there’s more chance for siblings getting ambitious and trying to off you). If you have two or more of your highest power title (Such as the king of Castile suddenly also getting the kingdom of Leon title) then there would be two kingdoms, so two children would inherit large titles and you would lose territory you as the player are directly controlling.
You can abolish titles, you take a fairly reasonable prestige hit (400 for a kingdom it appears) but it would make your successions much easier. Once you reach the emperor title you can have multiple kingdom titles since they would be under the overarching empire, although then you wouldn’t want multiple empires.

This is also highly, HIGHLY recommended for solving heartache with multiple types of succession law among kingdoms. If you find yourself with multiple kingdoms then you’ll quickly realize they can have different succession law, so while you might have agnatic-cognatic gavelkind with one, the other could be absolute-cognatic feudal elective. Instead of attempting to ever so slowly change succession law, you can just abolish that title then re-make which will use the succession laws of your highest title. It costs some gold and prestige (IIRC it costs 400 prestige to abolish it, then you gain 200 prestige when you create it and costs 200-300 gold) but it’s well worth it. And once you’re dealing with kingdoms and empires eating some prestige and gold isn’t too bad.

Edit 2: And as for understanding it, you’ll pick it up by playing. I learned CK2 by watching a few people play it and starting as most honorable newbie Ireland with one county and managed to conquer all the british isles before my kingdom fell apart since it was harder to hold shit together early on. Looking up things on wikis and asking other people who play can help a lot too. Absolutely no idea if the tutorials are worth anything.

Thanks for the replies and thanks for correcting me on the agnatic-cognatic gender law.

Regarding Palencia, I didn’t even notice the county capital up top - I only noticed the ones below, so thanks for pointing that out too.

I may proceed without having any kids so the King of Castille inherits my titles. The King of Castille has a high military rating. The King of Castille also doesn’t have children right now and I am his heir. We are about the same age so who knows who will die first. In either case the titles will get unified unless one of us has kids - I guess there are ways we can deal with that problem… Are there any drawbacks to this approach that aren’t readily apparent - other than the multiple kingdom / multiple succession law problem?

Actually my guy (King Alfonso of Leon) has a high intrigue rating so I could always try and off the King of Castille I suppose.

Another note: CK2 has a great soundtrack!

Yeah, playing as an Irish count is a great way to learn the game. Starting small in the HRE is fun too, you’re under the protection of the emperor so you don’t have to worry about outside threats and can instead focus on scheming against the Salians and that bastard Duke of Brunswick.
Another cool start is the Duke of Apulia in 1066 if you want to play a more hands on game, you’re independent and can field an army that rivals many smaller kingdoms but you’ve got the Byzantines in the east, the muslims in the south and the HRE in the north.

Edit: There’s no real downside apart from a ‘too many kingdoms’ opinion modifier with your vassals.

Go with what sounds good to you, the character you are playing, and appreciate that the character you do play will have his/her strengths and weaknesses. The game can be a volatile mixture of good and bad events that can send even the best laid plans in a new direction. Nothing like having a genius son carefully groomed from birth be rendered incapable and dying soon after from his first battle, despite the high martial skill that he had for instance.

I’ve fired up the learning scenario to see what you are talking about. The succession laws don’t change until you make the change, but yes, your brother will inherit all your titles, and you get to take over as playing that character should you die. If you want to take the risk of remaining unmarried and having a sibling inherit your titles, go ahead. I would think that your brother will be trying to kill you anyway. The trouble with this approach is that you don’t have any control over your brother’s part of the dynasty tree; no way to guide who he gets married to, potentially unable to educate his heir, that sort of thing. By getting married yourself, you can educate your heir and groom them for leadership in the way you see fit, you can marry into an alliance, and your son or sons will still get claims on the titles of Castille and Galica which you can pursue later. To me, I like to try and control what little I can in my game, and the way I would play is to try and unify the Kingdom of Leon myself, then project that power to pushing the remnants of the fractured Umayyad Islamic states out of the southern part of Spain, especially before an Islamic leader goes ahead and unifies them together.

Once the 10 year reign passes, you can I believe switch to Ultimogeniture or Elective. Primogeniture you need to raise crown authority, and that is some time away yet. There are pros and cons to both those succession types. Both do avoid splitting titles off to children when your current character dies. With gavelkind, should you have two sons for instance, the succession will end up where the eldest will take the Kingdom and one of the counties (likely Leon) and the second will take the second county and the barony. 3 sons means the eldest takes the Kingdom and a county, and the other two get one title each assuming the status quo remains. You can not have a Kingdom title without a piece of land, so you should always get at least one county on succession. With gavelkind, you can work out how the succession happened with your father. He was the king of Leon, Galica and Castille, and you’ll see each son inherited one kingdom each. If only one Kingdom title existed on his death with multiple duchy titles (eg: Duchy of Castille), then the eldest would have remained in control of all of your father’s land upon his death, and his sons would have ended up being Dukes under the control of the king.

I hope that makes sense? I’ve only just finished a couple of days of work with very limited sleep. If not, I’ll try again :) But most of all, with the game, obviously you want to make intelligent decisions, particularly thinking one or two generations ahead. But the game is very much a rollercoaster of ups and downs, and that is why I’m at 400 hours and counting of having played this game now.

Thanks for the response. I think it makes sense - for now :-)

I think with my high intrigue I will try and kill off my brothers to get their titles.

After I try this learning scenario my intention is to become a count in Ireland. I like to keep things simple and start small.

Be careful dude, this is an open forum.

Click on a county you own and is in you demense. Click on the holding you own (it’s most likely the big castle in the top right). This opens the holding screen where you can upgrade the holdings by adding walls etc. There are left/right arrows on the top part of this box – you can scroll through all of your holdings this way and I think it pans the map as it does it.

Holy crap the manual is so out of date it may actually do more harm than good to read. I’m reading the popup hint screens that occur the first time you open a screen, the tooltips and the manual. I have encountered a bunch of outdated information in the manual - at least I’m assuming so because it conflicts with the hint screen or tooltips. I really don’t like it when there isn’t something I can just read in order that gives me most of what I need to know to play. Is it really so hard to update a digital manual to save your customers some headaches? I like reading so much better than watching videos.

As others have stated, just play. With CK2, I tried watching a whole ton of videos and such, and nothing but “how to use the UI” sunk in until I played a bit. With EU4, I went the other way and tried a few games first before looking for “dear god what the hell am I doing” type help videos, and it made a big difference. Not to be confused with ‘knowing what the hell I’m doing’, but rather I can now watch some youtube stuff and actually learn from them.