The vast majority of sci-fi doesn’t have enough Lem!
-Tom
Well, the problem is that Interstellar didn’t touch me, even though I was…you know, this metaphor isn’t going to go anywhere good is it?
The Interstellar comparison is, well, not unwarranted, since they’re both studio pictures that aspire to be thoughtful sci-fi, share a similar plot device, and go for big emotional climaxes. We only get so many of those per decade. It’s also pretty reductive though, since themathically they go for very different things, and while it’s interesting to see how they use time loops in support of their themes, putting them side by side is mostly going to be useful on that level.
I never saw The Thing prequel (because why would I?), but since I loved Arrival, I actually feel it’s a prime example of how dicey it is to blame writers for their credits on studio movies, unless you know the production history.
Arrival is a rare exception though, since Heisserer optioned and wrote the adapatation on spec. This is one of those times when ascribing stuff to the writer is as fair as it can ever be.
It’s spoilery in that there are excerpts from the script, and a description of some scenes. But it doesn’t really spoil any of the reveals. (Of course, one problem I had with the movie was, because I had read the story, there weren’t any reveals for me. Was anybody surprised by anything that happened in this movie?)
Yes, I found it in turns confusing and surprising. I enjoyed it.
it was clear there was something funky going on with the kid/husband stuff. Wasn’t sure if it was time- or fantasy- or alternate-world or what until I was told explicitly, though. But it wasn’t a shock, because those scenes were presented with such heavy-handed emphasis up to the point of the reveal. Everything else about the story seemed straightforward.
Loved this, but I guessed the ending 60 minutes in, so I knew for half of te movie where it was going (emotionally and plot wise) so it was probably a very different trip than for most people.
One of my favorite movies in the last years and definitely one of the 5 best sci Fi movies I’ve seen in years.
Hands down better than Interstellar, not even on the same league.
The phone call is the only thing that was slightly off for me and that’s normally a tall order.
This is more His Master’s Voice than Contact.
I can’t believe we’ve been talking about this movie for this long and no one has mentioned Forest Whitaker’s weird accent!
…because I think it’s one of the few flaws in this movie. I loved it. One of the best movies I’ve seen in years. Why? It took its time. It treated the audience with respect. It didn’t turn into mysterious alien-fueled poetry at the end: it explained its premise in technical terms and as far as I can tell that premise holds up. The cosmic story mixed with a human story is fairly common for ambitious sci-fi movies to tackle, but they rarely end up as coherent as this one. It’s a kind of procedural, which I’m a sucker for–honestly, I would have loved twice as much procedural here. Show me more about how they unlock the logograms, and how they reflect the alien psychology. Tremendous performances all around, except the weird accent. Oh, and the music. THE MUSIC. We’re going to hear about that from Dingus, I’m sure.
The movie definitely has all kinds of parallels with Contact, a movie that I have a lot of fondness for, but also always wished were better executed. This is basically that movie. Zemekis is on-the-nose (“You expect us to take this all {pregnant pause} ON FAITH?”) every time Villenueve is restrained and nuanced. But the plot beats line up kind of neatly (while not being identical in their details), which is interesting. Maybe it’s something about first contact stories?
My wife and 15-year-old really liked it too. And because of the nature of the story, I think I might actually want to see this guy a second time, soon.
I’m kind of stunned that Tom had the reaction he did. Because some sci-fi movies definitely do what he accuses this of doing: Using aliens as a mechanism to tell a human-centric story. In my mind, Arrival is notable because the core concept at its heart elegantly explains both storylines and makes them inextricable from each other. It’s really really impressive.
I have no problem with using aliens to tell a story. My problem is a movie that’s about aliens for ninety minutes and then spends ten minutes pretending it was instead about how time travel makes you appreciate your sick kid! Yeah, yeah, I know that’s a ridiculously reductionist take on it, but that’s how it came across to me. Honestly, I wished I liked it as much as you did, because it tempered my enthusiasm for Villeneuve’s upcoming Blade Runner movie. :(
-Tom
Yeah, I have the same problem as Tom. The aliens were great, but in this movie the child track is not.
Boy, once it was clear, as she said, “why my ex-husband left me” I thought that was quite provocative. For him to say “You made the wrong decision” about something like that, and for her–from her unique perspective–to have done it… I guess it didn’t feel like an ordinary story of how a family breaks apart. I mean, I love Gravity, but the death-of-a-child drama in that definitely feels more tacked on to add some feeling than here.
One thing I do think could have been done better in Arrival was just how and when the “flashbacks” occurred. Seems like you could have created a more coherent way to show how learning the language was affecting her.
Agree, I think this is where the film failed for me. You start with the visions which at the beginning of the film she was not capable of having, and so when she gains the ability to perceive them, it is more confusing than anything else until the hint as to what they were and then “Oh no! I was hoping for a cool First Contact meme”.
I agree in principle (the first sequence is out of place with the overall narrative of the film) but I don’t think it could have been done any other way, since then you would have not given enough clues to the audience and the reveal would have felt unfair. The fact that it’s guessable from half the movie in is what makes the structure solid, imho.
At least they frame the whole movie as a flashback (that is, the whole movie is the main character reminiscing once she finally loses her child, about when it all started), which sort of helps with integrity.
As for the thematic approach, I do disagree with Tom and Miramon. I prefer this being about the human consequences of reality-altering first contact. In the end, externally the aliens change less than most aliens in movies change, but they fundamentally alter the nature of what being a person is, forever. Reading this as just about the kid is indeed reductionist, I think we are shown that something that could have been devastating is no more, that the fundamental concept of grief, the experience of time itself, changes the characters so much that they no longer have a recognizable psychology. Of course, instead of being reductionist I might instead be reading too much into it.
That’s good stuff, Juan. I think you’re right.
Mok – I don’t think it’s a cheat or just a cinematic trick to put the kid stuff first. In a way it deceives the viewer, yes, but when you understand the disjunction of time, you also understand the cyclical nature of the story and the character’s perspective. And some of the voice-over stuff buttresses that: “I don’t think in terms of beginnings anymore” (or whatever the line is).
I think it could and should have. If they wanted to make the film about the future, it should have started as a straight up first contact film, and get us to the ship and the first conversations without visions. Then she should begin having nightmares/hallucinations, and we can be confused as to where they come from…are they real? When did this happen to her? And they could grow more intense as she delves deeper into the language. That would have made much more sense IMHO and still keep the mystery for the big reveal.
EDIT : All sorts of toys to play with in that case - she could even hallucinate that she is having a fight with Renner over something when in reality it would happen later - and that could go more in depth as to his motivations/personality in the future. Cause he seemed like a nice nerdy guy throughout the actual film and the way they dealt with it “he thought I was crazy” is not believable after these giant hands had previously landed in 12 eggs across the planet.
[quote=“mok, post:78, topic:120764”]If they wanted to make the film about the future, it should have started as a straight up first contact film, and get us to the ship and the first conversations without visions
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Is the movie about the future, or is it about time, where present, past and future become indistinguishable? From the point of view the story is told, all those are the same.
[spoiler]Yeah, this is the old Deep Space Nine trick - if you don’t know the reference it is in the first season of that show I believe when the aliens that built the wormhole are met. there is a very interesting discussion of linear time vs non-linear time there.
But for the film to start with the future when how you got there is not explained I think made the film disappointing (suppose I am just a @tomchick like mind on this). When they mentioned the condition that she was developing - the whole film was over for me as it did seem like a cheap device instead of an “Oh wow”… And the rest of the film became very uninteresting and it did still have time to go.
More Edit: Again, I felt as the viewer we should start with linear time, as that is what we understand - we should grow in confusion as we don’t realize we are beginning to experience non-linear time, and then we share more of the experience with the actors. [/spoiler]
My wife and I saw this last night and while we enjoyed it, we had lingering questions which bugged us - about the aliens. Before I get to that, and after reading this thread full of spoilery discussion, If I may put my own thoughts on some of the story telling mechanisms because this movie really moved me not just for the reveal near the end, but the approach of first contact using a linguist and the world’s reaction intrigued me because I look forward to a day where we might have first contact and the hopeful and peaceful nature of that would be a welcome contrast to so many of the other variations we’ve seen on the big screen.
In the flashback at the beginning, they make a point to focus on her wedding ring, and I think it was clear from that this was the future - for when we return to the present and her narrator states “I thought this was the beginning…when they first arrived”, when we cut to the present - I do think the film-makers are trying to leave a red herring as she seems distracted as she walks through campus - so we as the audience believe these events just happened - hence why she is just numbly going to class without pausing to see why everyone is around the TV. But when she gets home, the house is barren of any family mementos. I don’t recall whether the bare wedding ring finger was shown in class or her house, but I distinctly recalling early on this was the future.
So I think the movie works and works very well for the human piece. It leaves you with one of those psychological questions which you can ponder and discuss “what would I do”. I can’t help but think I would choose the same as her but the weight of that decision would be immense. Earlier in the movie, it’s disclosed that the burden of knowing was too great and she shared it - which caused a huge rift in one of her relationships, which brings me back to spoiler filled questions about the aliens:
[spoiler]So, the aliens state “humanity helps us in 3,000 years” and we were left wondering what the “gift” they left us. The simple answer is their language - which apparently only Louise really is fluent enough in to see time as no one else knows how to see into the future. Had humanity learned the language can can see through time, then the disclosure to her husband should not have been a surprise.
So the major question we had at the end of the movie is:
Why did the Aliens come again?
Does anyone have an answer for that?[/spoiler]
[quote=“Tman, post:81, topic:120764, full:true”]…which apparently only Louise really is fluent enough in to see time as no one else knows how to see into the future. Had humanity learned the language can can see through time, then the disclosure to her husband should not have been a surprise…
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It seems to me many people are learning the language. Louise is just the first one to be fluent on it (it is implied others are able to at least partially translate it during the contact).
I just think her husband never got to learn it.
Also It seems people can only see through their own lifespan. So my takeaway is that the aliens did indeed give mankind the language, united it in the process and gave a powerful tool for the millennia coming forward