well, banishing requires playing a card, and you can only play cards on your turn.
well, yes and no. In the very very early turns it’s not that relevant, but its sweet spot is probably a turn or two away. If you draw it in your turn 3 hand along with a Militia, and you play it and get two Apprentices (the most likely result)… it’s basically the same as if it was an Apprentice itself. Either your five cards turn into four Apprentices, or you have four Apprentices and a Militia. It’s only better if you draw into a card that’s better than an Apprentice, which is more likely a couple turns from now.
Well, Fate effects (like the Arbiter of Fate) let you banish a card when it hits the board. Effectively before your next turn starts, but it’s a minor distinction since it’s after your draw and doesn’t add a 5th card to your hand.
I was referring to something like “Tablet of Time’s Dawn” already being out on the board. Can you banish in the middle of someone else’s turn in a multiplayer game, and get the next turn? I’ve been following these threads to gain a better understanding for a local gaming night.
Edit: D’oh, I thought the card let you decide to banish it as a stand alone without another card forcing the banishing. I’m guessing by your responses you’d have to have the Tablet in play and then also play a banishing card, which makes sense with the wording “another turn after this one.”
I’ll go to the back of the room now…
No, you were right. You have to buy the card from the center into your deck, draw it and play it as one of your constructs, and then you can sacrifice it to get another turn. But you can only do that during your own turn.
Sorry, the way it reads I thought that maybe you had to play a card that lets you banish it. I didn’t realize it was able to self banish, and if it was able to do that, didn’t know there was a rule that would only let you do so on your own turn (again, thinking of 3-4 player games).
The Architects of the Great Seal smile on me: Four Apprentices and my lone Mystic appear. Six runes. So which of the prizes to take? I won’t have another chance until my deck cycles, and it’s very unlikely dannimal will wait that long.
The Tablet of Time’s Dawn can be a powerhouse when used at the right moment. I mean, who doesn’t like a free turn? And in the hands of your opponent, it can be fatal.
But the Tablet is an investment in the future, in the perfect storm of an opportunity that may not come.
The Snapdragon is an investment in now. One rune a turn and a potential Lifebound honor bonanza (hi, Druids!). Time to build.
What would you have done?
As much as I like that extra turn, I live in fear it will get discarded by a monster kill when I put it up early and I end up using it way too early as a result. I like living in the now and would snap up the Snapdragon.
Use it right away. There’s almost no reason to wait to use it. It feels like using it later is better because your later turns are your “big” turns but using it sooner just means you’ll get to those “big” turns one turn early.
That said, I used to think it was more useful than I now do. When you get it, it’s a dead draw. Most games last at least 15 turns and an average score is around 75 points – but your later turns are higher so it’s probably worth a bit more than that. Factoring in the opportunity cost I value it as around the same as a 5 point mechana. For me that means it’s a good pick up mid-game or later but I’ll only get it before then if there are no better cards out.
Interesting - sounds like my instincts to use it earlier and that I doesn’t hurt to do so as much as I thought were sound.
Wow, I have the complete opposite approach to the Time Tablet.
Of course, it all depends on what is happening, but I rarely take it in the late game. It has a low honour-to-cost ratio, and you have no guarantee that you’ll have a chance to play it if you take it too late.
Taking it early ensures you can get it in play. But the card also has a side benefit to actually playing it immediately: it functions as a “guard” against Corrosive Widows. In the early game you can discard it instead of a construct which is performing a more valuable service at the moment, and often get it back into play by the time you need it. This capability has been lessened in the expansion by the presence of Vaultbreaker Wurms and Bazu, but if you’re playing an original deck game, it’s valuable.
Playing the Time Tablet in the mid-game seems to be the best use to me. You help your deck along when it needs a leg up most, you avoid a pointless turn of Apprentices or something, and you avoid the risk of it getting discarded before you can use it again.
And there’s always the temptation of shooting for theinfinite turn combo ;).
I definitely agree that it loses a lot of value if you can’t guarantee you’ll get to play it.
Taking it early ensures you can get it in play. But the card also has a side benefit to actually playing it immediately: it functions as a “guard” against Corrosive Widows.
But at a risk of losing it to other monsters or losing it before you get your second construct and then getting a second dead draw – if you get two dead draws in early game you’re probably doing pretty poorly. I only consider cards that have an on play affect (Burrower or Socket Altar) to be good “defense” constructs.
Playing the Time Tablet in the mid-game seems to be the best use to me. You help your deck along when it needs a leg up most, you avoid a pointless turn of Apprentices or something, and you avoid the risk of it getting discarded before you can use it again.
It really doesn’t if you get a bad draw when you play it. Think of it this way: suppose the draw you get with the Time Tablet is completely worthless. Well, that was your next hand either way. At least you got it out of the way – if you hadn’t used the Time Tablet then you were going to waste your whole next turn. Even though they might not be very sexy it’s those early turns that snowball you into your amazing late-game combos. In terms of points when you play makes almost no difference.
The only argument I see for waiting on it is that you might use it as insurance against a good draw that you can’t buy. For example you might use your last points to remove a card from the middle that then uncovers something amazing. If you save the Time Tablet you can then use it to take a turn and pick that up. But this, IMO, is way too narrow a use case versus the chance of losing it to a Sea Tyrant, etc.
Actually, this was a question that recently occurred to me. If you play a Void Initiate (or similar) and have the Tablet in your graveyard can you banish it from there and get the turn? The card doesn’t say anything about needing to be “in play”.
Here’s where things get teach-y.
I cursed J for getting a hand that gives him the Snapdragon, then faced my own conundrum. Do I take the tablet, a Mystic, 2 Infantry or the Burrower (only included because it was an option).
We’re so early that I’ll get the tablet in the next 3 turns. I do share the idea that it allows a ‘shield’ against the Widow but it’s a small benefit because of the Widow:Everything Else ratio.
I use the Scribe to convert the Militia to an Apprentice (which is exactly what was pointed out earlier that I hadn’t really realized). I’m pretty sure I don’t want him getting the Tablet, and with a fresh deck any combination of 5 of 10/14 cards (8 Apprentices, Mystic, Snapdragon) will let him get it. Would he take it then? Probably.
So, I grab the Tablet. It’s replaced by the Asp! With two on the board and neither one of us with even 1 Infantry, the monster-killing might be a slow grind. BUT they take up 2/3 of the board and the 5th is an 8-Rune beast. Something has to give.
My choice now is, do I grab 2 Infantry and start the march towards Monsterville, or a Mystic? I think I have to go Infantry, both because of the board and because J would be a turn behind me. If there were a path to banishing cards that might let me keep Lifebound off the board, maybe it’s different.
Board remains unchanged.
This to me is the strongest use of the tablet. You get your free turn PLUS you get to snatch up that must-have buy that your opponent was going to get.
This is my general strategy, possibly modified by a turn or two depending on:
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whether or not there are a construct killing monsters waiting to give me construct nightmares and
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what’s in the center and my hand that I can take advantage of (timing can be key, particularly when you reveal something nice for the other player)
Still, I tend to use it early. Ascension has so much momentum that getting a turn ahead can be a big advantage.
That’s ignoring the fact that your opponent’s turn can change the board. Let’s say in the early game your hand is filled with 8 apprentices, 2 militia, and maybe one or two other rune cards. The center row contains nothing but monsters and high-level heroes. Playing the Time Tablet after a four-rune hand is going to net you … another four-rune hand. Which won’t net you anything at all. But if you wait for your opponent to knock a center card out and reveal something new, then your next turn will actually be able to do something other than just buy a Mystic.
This is why I don’t always play the Time Tablet right away, especially in the early game when my hand is weak. Its benefit is far more powerful once you get rolling.
In that situation the problem isn’t that you might use your Time Tablet too early. The problem is that you bought the Time Tablet way too early on a board where you needed to focus on other stuff. You probably want to start buying Heavy Infantry anyway and the Time Tablet, while not great, would at least help you buy those up and cycle your deck to them.
[Psst! dannimal! You wrote about two turns in the same post! No worries, I’ll catch up!]
When last I left this match, I had taken the Snapdragon, which was replaced by a Vaultbreaker Wurm. No danger there for the moment, since we’re both low in power.
dannimal then scores the Tablet of Time’s Dawn. I had expected as much, but was hoping that it might take a little longer so that I might have a shot at it. It is replaced by a Great-Omen Raven.
With three apprentices in my hand, I could take a Mystic to continue to capitalize on the free rune the Snapdragon will give me once I play it. But since it’s early in the game, the Raven becomes much more attractive. Since I still have eight Apprentices in my hand, few other cards, and no culling cards in sight, the odds of doing a successful guess with the Raven go way up. Plus, it’s an additional Lifebound card that can give me an honor bonus with the Snapdragon.
If I’m pursuing the Hedron Cannon (and why not if a rune-heavy deck appears to be the way things are headed), then not taking a Mystic is mission drift. However, I think the benefits will outweigh the slight delay to my buying power.
The Raven is replaced by the board’s second Sordid Asp.
I hate the Sordid Asp. Even more than Xeron. Even more than the Henge Queen. No card has screwed me more consistently than the Goddamned Sordid Asp.
But with us both packing Militia-only armies, they’re not much of a threat. So in a cocky display, I go ahead and kill a cultist and take a commanding lead.
What would you have done?
dannimal begins building his power base with two Heavies. I foresee a bite from a Sordid Asp or two in the near future.
My draw: Three Apprentices, a Militia, and the Druids. This hand is the one I had hoped for; it’s just a little late.
I had wanted it to appear in the last hand before my deck cycled, so that I could pull two Mystics in the same turn. The Druids one would be in the next hand, and the regularly acquired one would go into the general population of a fresh deck and raise the possibility of higher rune hands.
However, the deck has cycled. If I were to stay with that plan, only the one acquired by the Druids would come into play before the next cycle.
Still, with nothing more compelling than the Burrower Mark II on the board, I’ll stick with the Mystics. I also don’t want to risk revealing a better card for dannimal by taking the Burrower.
What would you have done?