At least two people on Qt3 are into opera!

Books, comics, TV, music
21

This is from Bachs cantata BWV 26

Ach wie flüchtig, ach wie nichtig
Ah how fleeting, ah how insubstantial
Ist der Menschen Leben!
is man’s life!
Wie ein Nebel bald entstehet
As a mist soon arises
Und auch wieder bald vergehet,
and soon also vanishes again,
So ist unser Leben, sehet!
so is our life, see!

In German, it it is even more interesting, because life=mist is Leben=Nebel is forwards/backwards the same word…

Second song

So schnell ein rauschend Wasser schießt,
As swiftly as roaring water rushes by,
So eilen unser Lebenstage.
so hurry by the days of our life.
Die Zeit vergeht, die Stunden eilen,
Time passes, the hours hurry by,
Wie sich die Tropfen plötzlich teilen,
just as drops suddenly divide themselves,
Wenn alles in den Abgrund schießt.
when all rushes into the abyss.

https://youtu.be/xbTl2lJy7vE

Bach could have done some great operas, if he were not have been bound to his church…

22

I’m also “into Opera” but in a slightly different way. I’ve never listened to any recordings, but when living in NYC we got used to applying to the MET ticket lottery and watched maybe 2-3 operas per year (amazing productions, since, well, it’s the MET). First one I saw was Madame Butterfly, directed by Minghella. Quite an introduction,

I got my now wife into it and when we moved back to Madrid (and got more stabilized economically) we got a season pass to the Royal Opera Theater here. Seats are not spectacular (good ones are expensive) but it’s good enough to enjoy the production. It’s about 9-10 Operas per year (about one a month but in summer). We are on the fifth year now and liking it more and more as we learn. I’ve probably seen 50-60 operas so far, which feels far too few.

So yeah, I guess we are pretty into opera, but my initial interest came from studying/working on films, and to this day I see it mostly as a dramatic medium. Which means for me listening to a recording feels the same as listening to the audio track of a movie. Maybe an interesting exercise, but not fulfilling. It also means contemporary exploratory/abstract/“documentary” stuff does not resonate with me, due to the lack of drama, even if I like the music (I respect the three Philip Glass Operas I’ve seen, but I can’t say I’ve enjoyed them as I do others). Also I have a very poor musical ear. I can appreciate stuff, but it’s hard for me to distinguish between a mediocre and a great performance, for example. Which probably means I’m an easy audience member (I do care a lot about acting -even in operas-, though).

The latest opers that really struck me was Prokopiev’s Fiery Angel (saw it two months ago or so, and it was a very good take on it, I feel. Basically it made the subtext text, and therefore it felt modern and relevant). And I really like what I’ve seen of Benjamin Britten (Glorianna and Peter Grimes). I do remember very specifics moments of operas here and ther. For example, how Lucia di Lammermoor’ aria creeped me out. We also enjoy our Wagner and Verdi (this year the Opera Theater here completed their Ring Cycle, so it was nice to finally experience the full story).

I’m glad this thread exists now. Many times after a good show I’ve been thinking of starting a Qt3 opera thread, but I always flaked on it.

23

For me it is and always has been, music first. If I am not into the music, the text/drama doesn’t do much for me… I think that e.g. Mozarts operas would not work with medicore music. I don’t really care about the people, but Mozarts music elevates the whole banality of something like Figaro… or to put it this way: if I want to see great actors I watch movies … I think I am a bit binary here.

24

as you know, maybe, Beethoven struggled with his Fidelio for a very long time, rewritten the ouverture a few times, and not by random, it remained his one and only opera.

25

I once went to an open air opera (Carmen) in the Roman Arena in Verona, Italy. It was a magical experience. Only the last half hour was interrupted due to some rain. Highly, highly recommended.

26

I think the actors in this performance work very well (I have the BluRay) of the Met

27

The finale of Carmen in the rain? Not sure that’s an interruption so much as a divine commentary track. :)

-Tom

28

Ah this reminds me the likely the first Opera I saw was a production of Carmen in the Salamanca bullfighting arena. The performance included a (non-fatal) bullfight. Probably very non-standard, but I was young at the time (still in college).

I saw a really good performance of Carmen 4-5 years ago. It was set in the 70s in southern Spain, with many cars of the stage, etc… it worked really well, and the actors were excellent.

I also saw a Chinese Opera in the open air (at Merida, during the Classical theater festival, which is performed at a real Roman theater. Amazing venue but in general conservative on their productions. It’s hard to get very excited about Greek and Roman theater in general, specially if the production does not push it in terms of staging, etc.). But it was not really opera as we think of it.

29

is this an english thing, to call the singers “actors” because I read this in this thread from different posters. I am ready to learn, but I can’t think of an opera singer like to be labeled an “actor”. Technically, he is acting on stage, like performing “actions”… anyways, I call them singers. In German, you would never call them “actors”, also I never heard that expression for opera singers or any other mainly singers…

30

Nah. It’s more my thing than anything else, I believe.

My musical ear sucks (believe me, it does. I’ve been told by at least two professional musicians -close friends- that I’m the person with worst sense of rhythm they’ve ever met), so what I care from an opera singer is mostly the acting. I guess the singing has to be passable for me to enjoy, but since we do watch middle to high budget productions I think it’s mostly ok? I have identified great singing once or twice (me thinking it sounded particularly nice and then people going bananas with the applause) but I know my limitations.

But great singing without acting, both external and internal, with tells shows of true emotion from the actors? Well, it would bother me a lot (I loathe the idea of watching a “concert-style” performance of an opera).

I think of them as actors first and foremost, so that’s why I go with that word subconsciously (the proper term in Spanish is indeed “singer”).

As I said in my first post in this thread, I am into opera, but likely in a weird, slightly unusual way.

Or to put it some other way: I like (and watch a significant amount of) opera, but I don’t pretend to know anything about it.

31

man, your head must explode, when you will see really good actors on a stage in a theatre in a play. I once saw Martin Freeman live on stage in Richard the Third. He is a really great actor and performer. I might be teasing you, but true story. I saw Martin Freeman live…

I can’t tell really if some singers or other types of professional muscicians are exceptionally good, I like my local singers. But I know for sure if I like a tune/music or not. There is stuff from the greatest composers, which I just don’t like. I never had any issues with not liking particular musical performances of life musicians.

Maybe because I am learning an instrument myself, I can see what a great job they are doing. It always looks like so effortless, but now I know how much hard work there is to squeeze a good sound out of a violin…

32

Yes “good” acting (it can mean many things) is probably one of the experiences closest to transcendent for me.

Last time it happened was a relatively small “documentary theater” play I watched. The actors transformed in a very special, unique way I had never seen before, into fully realized people, and seemingly effortlessly. It was bliss.

But back to topic: last performance we saw was Fígaro. The main “actress” was so expressive and brought such life to her character even when she was not singing that it was a very enjoyable experience even though I didn’t find the music that thrilling (I did enjoy Don Giovanni, but I think this period in opera is perhaps not the best suited for my tastes).

33

It sure was fitting for the setting and pretty atmospheric. Too bad the orchestra didn’t want to get their instruments wet and stopped playing. Such a mood killer.

34

The most beautiful music ever written. I have two rules regarding live concerts or opera. I never buy tickets for a work, that I don’t know by heart.
Meaning, before I ever went to a live performance of say, Don Giovanni, I at least heard it complete like 5-6 times at home and actually liked what I heard. It gets better the more often you hear it.
Second rule, I never judge music by first time listening to it, because, for me, it is too much to parse… There were so many occasions, where I listened to a piece first time and was not into it. But some parts got their hooks into me, kept me coming back. And later I was glad that I put time and effort into “learning” a piece of music.
Yeah, it is a learning process for me…

So I have a repertoire of “learned” pieces that I actually seek out and want to experience live.

I am weird in this way, friends of mine go for any concert hear it once, like it or not and move on. Same with movies… For me repeated listening/viewing makes it worthwhile. It increases my pleasure immensely.

35

Wow, this is so alien to my experience.

I love being surprised. Part of the joy of the season pass is many times not having any idea what kind of music and story I’m going to see. In a way, it bothers me there’s always a Wagner, a Verdi and a Mozart every season (or at least it feels like it). That’s 3 of the 10 slots taken by people I already know…

The joy of discovering Britten or Prokofiev this way is great. Those works made amazing first impressions to me. I would not have wanted to be spoiled beforehand.

We also got to see a world premiere or two, although as I’ve said I find contemporary opera lack of drama a little disappointing (did enjoy the works, but not love them).

36

I just wanted to add my voice to whoever upthread said that they’re pleased that this discussion about opera exists here on QT3. It makes my heart happy!

37

This describes me as well. I enjoy live musical performances much, much more if I’m already familiar with the works. For classical works, I’ll almost always listen to it at least twice (preferably following along with the score) before attending a performance.

To me, the mark of a great work of art is that it grows deeper and more meaningful each time it is experienced.

38

this thread is dying fast, the good ones all die young.

Before that happens, I have a question. When did opera change from a musical form where there were arias, duos, trios, quartets of singers singing, all together, changed to a text-heavy dialogue of recitativos accompanied by music. An endless back and forth between singers without actually singing…

you want an example? I give you an example

or here

or here

https://youtu.be/gHSKXZpZWCk?t=1230

did it all start with Wagner?

It’s like talking, talking, talking, yes they sing, but these are not songs. Try to whistle those endless dialogues after you heared them.

It used to be very short in Mozarts time, only between the musical pieces, but they never were the main thing. But now, it is almost only recitativos. If I want this, I would go watch a play in a theatre or movie with people who actually learned how to act.

That’s a main reason to me, why I don’t jump into any opera that is out there. I don’t enjoy this half-singing. I might need to develop my musical ear more, I guess. But am I the only one who does go for the music and not for the text?

I was this week in L’enfant terribles live (because Philip Glass and Cocteau, but I knew what was coming). There was not one single song in the whole opera… And if you listen to Satyagraha or Akhnaten, they were 100% singing (and a narrator, but that’s OK).

In Dido and Aeneas, the little bit that there is of recitativos, they are totally tied to the music, you can whistle and sing them, and they are almost not there… or integrated in arias, songs, chorus etc…

So when did that happened? When did composers lose interest in making great duets or arias, and changed to this dialogue-heavy, text-heavy form? And why?

39

I have no idea. I don’t know much about the genre history, but there are definitely different takes to the form along the way.

As I’m in for the whole experience (And that includes the text or drama) I guess it doesn’t bother me much?

40

I have much to learn about opera and I certainly can’t answer your question, but I agree it’s incredibly annoying. I’m in it for the soaring arias, dammit!