Avengers 3: Infinity War

Everyone but Dave Long needs to go watch The Star Spangled Man on repeat until they get with the program.

Elsewhere, I’ve always been a Thor: The Dark World apologist (Thodaworlogist), but re-watching the entire franchise this year has brought me to the point where I think it might even be better than the first Thor.

I think there’s a case to be made that the first Thor has aged the worst of any of the MCU movies, no matter where your opinion of it started. Branagh’s direction is awful, Natalie Portman is some of the worst casting in the MCU, and Hemsworth’s wig was still coming into its own. It generated a lot of good will despite that because Loki was a revelation (and remains one of the best MCU villains), the vision of Asgard successfully walked the line between space-fantasy and Norse, and Hemsworth from the wig down was charming.

Even a card carrying thodaworlogist will admit Eccleston’s Malekith was one of the worst of Marvel villains. He never gets close to doing anything sympathetic, layered, surprising, or charismatic, and none of that’s Ecceleston’s fault, he was just given nothing. And it’s easy to attach a greater significance to this failure because it’s a frequent offense for Marvel films. But if you can move past that, The Dark World surpasses the original in every way.

Loki—the sympathetic, layered, surprising, charismatic reason I thought the first film was better for the longest time—doesn’t get the spotlight, but he’s no less engaging for it. In fact, watching his reaction to his mother’s death (and how he hides it), and the interaction with Thor when they’re working together is some of the best stuff for his character. Under Alan Taylor’s direction (a process he has no love for in interviews, but man I’m glad he made it) we get what’s still one of the most beautiful Marvel movies. Costumes, sets, photography, effects, even the wigs, the whole of production is excellent under Taylor, a welcome change from Marvel’s frequent reliance on lazy green screening and digital sets. Natalie Portman is still, well, she’s still there unfortunately.

If you grade on a curve and you give the first Thor credit for introducing us to Loki and Asgard, it might still come out ahead, but if there’s no extra credit for the novelty, Thor: The Dark World is a better film than the original. Better than almost everyone gives it credit for.

Well all right then - this is why we have the internet! Point and counterpoint. I’m still not totally convinced I want to actually watch The Dark World but I do like to see it has defenders.

To be clear, I’m not a Defenders defender, or “defender” as we call them.

Considering each Defender has a 13 hour movie (or season, if you will) dedicated to each, and then the full team has its own I think, I really don’t see myself ever watching that.

You could write an entire novel trying to spin Dark World positive. It’s still a stupid, garbage movie.

I dunno. Based on what I’ve seen from the movies, he’s some grumpy stringy haired dude with a metal arm who disappeared for a while and had something done to his head. ;-)

Obviously not a haircut or wash. So greasy!

Can someone give a full summary up to now of Loki’s plot throughout the MCU, excluding Thor Ragnarok?

I’ve seen every MCU movie except for the 3 Thors, and don’t want to see Thor 1 and 2. I plan to see Ragnarok before Infinity War comes out.

Loki’s presence in the two Avengers movies confused me because his allegiances seems so fluid. I’ve never really understood where he stands or what his motivations are.

I mean come on Bucky, wash that shit. :p

He’s adopted and jealous of his brother. Everyone else is kind of collateral damage on his way to rule… something, anyone… really.

Ragnarok covers the summary okay too in their few heart to heart moments.

Loki and Bucky also have largest lady followers/fans.

Loki was only in the first Avengers, not the second (Age of Ultron). His allegiances are fairly fluid, you’re not wrong on that.

Asgard is this funky flat-earth style planet somewhere out there in space. It’s referred to as one of the “nine realms”, which also include Earth (Midgard) and Jotunheim (more on that one shortly). The realms aren’t dimensions or other realities, they’re just different planets, and the significance of the nine realms is unclear. Asgard explains they’re connected by Yggdragsil, the “world tree”, which is sort of like a tree shaped constellation someone spilled a nebula on for dramatic effect. Again, this is treated as significant by the Asgardians, but we’re never given any explanations of how these nine worlds are connected or if it’s important.

Everyone and everything in Asgard looks like Norse legends with a pinch of sci-fi tech. Jotunheim is a frozen world of frost giants—large, blue-skinned, orc-looking dudes that live in a very poorly lit, claustrophobic, green-screened world of ice.

So back in the time of vikings on Earth, Jotunheim invaded, led by frost giant King Laufey. Led by Odin (Anthony Hopkins), ruler of Asgard, the Asgardians intervened and saved Earth, hence all the relevant viking myths.

In further fighting on Jotunheim, Odin lost his eye, but they beat the frost giants and a truce was reached. Odin kept their frosty MacGuffin thingy so they didn’t have too much power, they were left to themselves on Jotunheim, but unbeknownst to anyone, Odin rescued/stole a tiny frost giant infant, Laufey’s son, a runt (“small, for a frost giant” it’s explained in the movie) who had been abandoned to die. Magicking him up so he doesn’t look like a blue orc, Odin raises him as Loki, his son, alongside his biological son Thor. I believe Odin’s wife Frigga was the only other person in on the deception, even Loki didn’t know he was a frost giant.

So during the “current” time when most of the events of the first Thor unfold, Thor and Loki are brothers and friends, though Loki harbors some resentment that Thor’s not shaping up to be a great ruler. Already excellent at manipulating people, Loki goads Thor and friends into picking a fight with the frost giants on Jotunheim, jeopardizing the truce, and in the process accidentally revealing to Loki (and no one else yet) that he’s actually a frost giant. Things happen, Thor is banished to Earth, Loki confronts Odin and gets the truth.

Odin explains it was a plan to eventually secure long term peace between Asgard and Jotunheim, Loki is furious that his lineage was kept from him. He basically shouts Odin into a coma, but still keeping knowledge of his past to himself, he approaches Laufey with a plan for the frost giants to kill Odin while he’s defenseless. It’s a double-cross, Loki kills Laufey, saves Odin, and is given the throne while Odin still sleeps and Thor’s still banished. Loki sets in motion a plan to destroy all of Jotunheim.

Of course Thor does his thing, gets all worthy again, is unbanished, comes back to right the wrongs. He stops Loki from destroying Jotunheim, Odin wakes up in time to save them both in the climactic fight when they’re basically dangling off the edge of Asgard, but rather than be saved, Loki lets go and gets whooshed off into space, to next appear in The Avengers.

I honestly can’t remember if Loki, Odin, or Frigga ever tell Thor about Loki’s true origin or that he’s a frost giant. It doesn’t really come up again, the upshot is Loki certainly has no allegiance to them, but also resents Odin’s deception (though not enough to kill him outright) and Thor’s impending ascendancy to the throne. Knowing that he’s technically in line to be a king by birthright himself (though he doesn’t want to rule Jotunheim) just makes Loki resent Thor all the more.

So you’ve seen Avengers, you know Loki is given the scepter by Thanos’s acolyte and sent to retrieve the cosmic cube in exchange for dominion over Earth. The motivation here basically seems to be screwing over Thor. Finding something he loves (Earth), Loki wants to ruin that.

Thor: The Dark World picks up Loki’s story where Avengers leaves off, with him being returned to Asgard a prisoner. It’s Frigga’s influence that results in Loki being imprisoned instead of executed for his crimes, so things are certainly still frosty (ha) between Loki and Odin.

The gist of The Dark World is that the “Aether”, a red mist that’s later revealed to be an infinity stone, is some super powerful MacGuffin that a race of a dark elves almost controlled in ancient history, only to be thwarted by the Asgardian’s (led at the time by Odin’s father). If someone possess/is possessed by the aether they’re all super-destructive, and the plan in ancient times was to destroy all nine realms (planets) because they were in alignment. In modern day, the realms are about to align again, so the dark elves are back to try it again. Natalie Portman’s Jane Foster bumbles into accidentally being possessed by the aether first, which is why Thor gets involved.

Thor brings her to Asgard, the dark elves make an attempt on her life and very nearly succeed, thwarted only by Frigga, who is killed in the attack. This legitimately devastates Loki. Frigga doesn’t get much screen time in any of the movies, but it’s clear from the Dark World that she’s one of the only people Loki truly cared for. Thor and friends make a plan to sneak Jane out of Asgard, planning to draw the danger away, setup a trade with the dark elves, and then attack and destroy the aether when they try to draw it out of Jane. Thor and friends have to use a sneaky way out of Asgard though, and the only one who knows the way is Loki, so they free him as well.

Thor and Loki, just freed from prison, on their way to implementing their plan to escape Asgard with Jane, gives us one of the best scenes in the MCU:

Thor knows he can’t trust Loki, but he’s counting on Loki’s rage against the dark elves killing Frigga for giving them enough common ground to work together on this. Loki helps them escape, follows through with the plan to try to destroy the aether and the elves, but the elves win that fight through no fault of Loki. He doesn’t betray or undermine the plan, however he “sacrifices” himself to save Thor in the battle, which is quickly revealed to be one of his illusions. So Thor now believes Loki died heroically, there are no other witnesses, and Loki is free to do whatever. That’s around the end of the second act of the movie.

Loki isn’t mentioned for the rest of the film, until the finale scene, after Thor has returned to Asgard, victorious against the dark elves. Thor’s talking to Odin, and you should watch this for yourself too, it’s legitimately great:

And in between the first Thor and The Avengers, the MCU conveniently discards all of the interesting bits of Loki revealed as a Frost Giant. He never uses the frost powers again, never starts to turn the bluish color, etc. He’s still a great character, but they lopped off the entirety of his motivations from the first film.

So the short answer is Loki could’ve been a king, but was left for dead by his own family, and betrayed by the family that raised him. He wants to see them pay for their betrayal, though not usually to the point of wanting them dead. He wants to rule, he was born for it and he knows it, and somewhere down deep inside, he wants the love of a family, which he barely admits even to himself. It’s rarely the driving force behind his plans, but occasionally his “humanity” shows through.

Well, yes and no. I’d argue that wasn’t the “interesting bit” of the revelation. Frost giants don’t seem particularly more powerful or interesting than Asgardians or anyone else in the MCU. Especially not human/Asgardian-sized frost giants. The interesting part is the relationships; that the frost giants left him for dead, that he was lied to about his lineage, etc. His motivations remain intact, more or less. I mean I guess maybe they should revisit whether he still wants to destroy all of Jotunheim, but he did kill his frost giant dad Laufey. That’s enough for me to move on from that part of his history. I’m never watching him in later movies thinking “why doesn’t he use his blue frosty powers, that would change everything!”

So it is weird that it’s never mentioned at all again, but I don’t think it’s holding back the character.

The one thing about Loki that I felt was left unexplained was how he unseated Odin from the throne and ejected him from Asgard down onto earth. Where he was apparently stripped of his powers and left to soon die.

Doesn’t really need explaining. Again, in the first Thor, he basically guilted Odin into a coma, and he’s been shown to be able to evade Heimdall’s all-seeing watch over things. Entirely believable that he could’ve taken down Odin one-on-one and hidden him away on Earth.

He doesn’t actually like Frost Giants, he bought into the whole Asgard is the best thing, the way only a convert can.

And he does love Odin, in his way. And Odin loves him too. Same as Thor. But a scorpion gonna sting.

Loki loved Frigga.

He resents Thor’s birthright and status, and at times (the first Thor, Avengers) he’s tried to punish Thor for that, but ultimately he doesn’t hate Thor.

I think he truly hates, or at least hated Odin. Thor didn’t do anything to betray or hurt Loki, but Odin absolutely lied to him his entire life. Loki still doesn’t hate him enough to murder him, because he had the chance several times. And like his relationship with Thor, I think it is very slowly improving. But I’m not ready to say that Loki loves Odin, even in some deep down subconscious way. I think on some level he knows that Odin’s betrayal technically still saved Loki’s life, but to be raised in a lie is a wound that’s going to take a long time to forgive.

I agree Odin does love Loki, and he recognizes his deception was wrong, but far too late, and even after admitting it to Loki, he never owns up to it publicly or works to repair that damage.

I’m trying not to discuss anything in Ragnarok since @LMN8R kicked off this little tangent and he still plans to watch Ragnarok (also I’ve technically only seen it all the way through once, back in theaters, so I’d probably get details wrong).

Odin was already exhausted and needing sleep (Laufey pointed out how tired he looked before Odin gated Thor and his companions back to Asgard). My own explanation was Odin’s grief over Frigga left him dazed, so I get the distraction, but how do you strip an Asgardian’s power away? If it’s do-able, why didn’t Loki strip Thor of his strength and command over lightning? Odin is powerful as all get-out, something the movies never showed.

I love that Loki can turn Odin into punctuation.