Baldurs Gate 3?

Why would anyone want to play a story heavy RPG in EA? You’re ruining the game for yourself. Makes no sense.

Yep, like I posted in June:

Sticking the game into EA for what looks to me a minimum of 2 years definitely dampened my interest in it. Objectively I guess I’m doing them a disservice, since if I’d never heard of an EA release and one day it drops in a ready form, I would probably be excited about it. However this way it feels like they are just fumbling around in the dark and letting random people playtest it until its in a semi acceptable shape and then dump it on the market…

The fact that adding a new class that mechanically has literally nothing crazy is locked behind some event is what makes me care less and less about BG3 as time goes on.

“We still aren’t even remotely close, but we’re going to restrict information to you!”

Yeah, that doesn’t leave me with a positive impression. It’s going to be a patch that adds something that’s basically already in the game and maybe some other stuff, but also no new levels probably so we’re still at level 4 and holy fuck I stopped caring halfway through typing this.

Probably telling that they had their big event a few hours ago for the upcoming Patch 6 and no one (not even me) seemed to have watched it and/or found its contents worthy of bumping this thread.

I’ll see if I can find a summary and post it here.

New Class - Sorcerer
New Area - Grymforge

Another biggie is something called Weapon Actions, which gives non-magic users new moves in combat, assuming you’re proficient with the weapon performing them. There are 12, and they allow you to do things like Brace, to spend your movement speed to reroll your damage dice; Heartstopper, to smash an enemy in the chest and potentially reduce their actions by one; and Mobile Shot, to make a ranged attack after you dash or disengage. They all sound useful and you can have up to three of these.

Having no other context than this block of text, I’m annoyed by this. It’s another example of Laurian just doing whatever they want instead of using their engine and expertise to create a proper 5th edition D&D game. I’ll retract this annoyance if I find out later this is actually in 5th edition of course, but I have
doubts that will end up being the case, so I’m not going to even do research on that score.

EDIT: This is from the news letter, wrt Weapon Actions:

The aim here is to ensure players will experience melee actions closer in line to those dreamt up during a tabletop D&D game.

From this perspective I can agree it’s not a bad idea to give melee players something more interesting to do than hop behind a target and swing, so I’ll try to keep an open mind. Maybe I’ll really like this system who knows?

There’s also been a serious graphics overhaul, particularly to the lighting and cinematics, and you should now notice lots of fancy fog about the place. A smaller thing connected to this, and one that delighted me when I saw it, was that characters also now get dirty, sweaty, bloodied and bruised during their adventures. They accumulate these things depending on what you’ve been doing. Having low hit-points will result in bruising, for example. You wash these off or recover from them when you camp.

A solid addition to the game, I think. It already looks great - making it look even better will only be a good thing!

Otherwise, some bug fixes and other changes. This is a good change, imo:

We have also made numerous improvements with combat and character balancing. For instance, we’ve updated the high ground rule, making it so you’ll now receive a bonus on attack rather than an advantage/disadvantage. We’ve also tweaked Shadowheart’s Ability score, reducing her CHA and increasing her STR. Issues with Mobile feat have also been solved, and Concentration throws are now displayed via the overhead roll UI.

Bolding mine.

All Weapon Actions:

The patch notes include a TON of improvements, fixes, changes, and other misc content that all looks really good and smart to implement, so that’s really cool. It’s too much to copy paste here and I suspect most of everyone in this thread got the same email, but if not here is a link to the blog post that should be identical:

I’m really looking forward to playing this, but I’m purposefully avoiding it until it’s done. I have the EA version, tried the intro area and thought “awesome! can’t wait to play it in 2 years.” So now it sits. Early Access for this big of a title was a strange decision.

Yeah. The DM’s guide already provides some possible options here for games that want a little more to the melee attacking world than just “I swing, I miss, he swing, he hit.”

Action Options

This section provides new action options for combat. They can be added as a group or individually to your game.

Climb onto a Bigger Creature

If one creature wants to jump onto another creature, it can do so by grappling. A Small or Medium creature has little chance of making a successful grapple against a Huge or Gargantuan creature, however, unless magic has granted the grappler supernatural might.

As an alternative, a suitably large opponent can be treated as terrain for the purpose of jumping onto its back or clinging to a limb. After making any ability checks necessary to get into position and onto the larger creature, the smaller creature uses its action to make a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by the target’s Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If it wins the contest, the smaller creature successfully moves into the target creature’s space and clings to its body. While in the target’s space, the smaller creature moves with the target and has advantage on attack rolls against it.

The smaller creature can move around within the larger creature’s space, treating the space as difficult terrain. The larger creature’s ability to attack the smaller creature depends on the smaller creature’s location, and is left to your discretion. The larger creature can dislodge the smaller creature as an action—knocking it off, scraping it against a wall, or grabbing and throwing it—by making a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the smaller creature’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. The smaller creature chooses which ability to use.

Disarm

A creature can use a weapon attack to knock a weapon or another item from a target’s grasp. The attacker makes an attack roll contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) check or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the attacker wins the contest, the attack causes no damage or other ill effect, but the defender drops the item.

The attacker has disadvantage on its attack roll if the target is holding the item with two or more hands. The target has advantage on its ability check if it is larger than the attacking creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller.

Mark

This option makes it easier for melee combatants to harry each other with opportunity attacks.

When a creature makes a melee attack, it can also mark its target. Until the end of the attacker’s next turn, any opportunity attack it makes against the marked target has advantage. The opportunity attack doesn’t expend the attacker’s reaction, but the attacker can’t make the attack if anything, such as the incapacitated condition or the shocking grasp spell, is preventing it from taking reactions. The attacker is limited to one opportunity attack per turn.

Overrun

When a creature tries to move through a hostile creature’s space, the mover can try to force its way through by overrunning the hostile creature. As an action or a bonus action, the mover makes a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the hostile creature’s Strength (Athletics) check. The creature attempting the overrun has advantage on this check if it is larger than the hostile creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller. If the mover wins the contest, it can move through the hostile creature’s space once this turn.

Shove Aside

With this option, a creature uses the special shove attack from the Player’s Handbook to force a target to the side, rather than away. The attacker has disadvantage on its Strength (Athletics) check when it does so. If that check is successful, the attacker moves the target 5 feet to a different space within its reach.

Tumble

A creature can try to tumble through a hostile creature’s space, ducking and weaving past the opponent. As an action or a bonus action, the tumbler makes a Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by the hostile creature’s Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the tumbler wins the contest, it can move through the hostile creature’s space once this turn.

Things like called shots (in the vein of the “Weakening Strike” and “Crippling Strike”) are also an incredibly common houserule at a lot of D&D tables. My CoS GM, for instance, has the following house rules for our game that make things pretty fun!

General Rules

Advantage and Disadvantage: In general, if there is more advantage or disadvantage than its opposite, we will apply the advantage or disadvantage as the majority decides. For instance, if someone is grabbed, blind, and flanked, a rogue attacking them has advantage, even if they are sick to their stomach.

Targeted Attacks: When attacking a specific body part or item such as a sword, if it’s easy, then it’s a -2 to the attack roll, if it’s difficult then the attack is with disadvantage, if it’s hard it’s a -5, and if it’s nearly impossible it will be both with disadvantage and a penalty.

Inspiration: A player can have more than one inspiration point at a time. They function like hero points from Mutants and Masterminds. They can be rewarded for great moments of roleplaying, or, when your chosen traits, such as your ideal, become a defining moment.

You can have up to 3 Inspiration Points.

Feats: You are allowed to purchase feats when you would receive an ability score increase.

Critical Hits: With a critical hit you can apply a cinematic effect such as targetting a specific limb, causing a cool effect to happen, or doing damage to weapon, among other effects if you desire.

I still feel like all these options are things Battle Masters do handily with a proper reaction UI.

Also nothing I saw made me feel any better about it. You added more areas but still no more levels. Rogues still get one sneak attack when dual wielding because sneak attack is it’s own action for no good reason.

Also some spells or something. You’re still level 4, but enjoy a whole new section of game that dramatically out-levels you because giving you 3rd level spells or extra attacks is something we’re not doing until late 2022 if you’re lucky.

I’ve become meh incarnate about everything they’re doing over there.

I thoroughly enjoyed my beta experience and will be very excited to play the full game when it comes out. Yes, your expectations will have to be managed, because it is ultimately a DOS game wearing a Baldur’s Gate skin, but the game that is there is very enjoyable. Loved the characters, the story, the cinematic roleplaying. There’s humor, an interesting story, a vast numbers of quests and an even vaster number of solutions to those quests. It’s a fun game y’all! But it might not be what you are expecting from the title “Baldur Gate 3” (which is an understandable disappointment) or even a DnD property really (although trying to strong arm true DnD rules into a PC framework seems to be a really unfair standard).

Larian’s blessing and curse is that they really do try to satisfy their fans perhaps to a fault. Ultimately, I think it makes their games more fun though, and hopefully they are sanding away some of those more hardcoded DOS carryover systems. God, somebody teach them how to have a proper inventory management system though, please.

For me the DnD high value factors are really just the classes, class features, and spell mechanics.

One of the biggest problems I have with Larian, is if they decide to toss that stuff out in favor of their DOS mechanics. (particularly when it comes to how spells work)

Yeah, the DOS’ inventory system is the worst ever produced.

Honestly having an option for “By the rules” or something would make so many things better.

Like I don’t want weapon skills, give me an option to turn them off. Yes I can just not use them, but that doesn’t stop the enemies from using them and annoying me. We already know it’s going to be forever before it comes out anyway.

And Sneak Attack needs to be a toggle, there is zero reason for it to be a whole button. Even Solasta just does it and they handle reactions. TWF should be good for rogues, especially since they’re literally the only class left that it’s good for in 5E (so you can double your chances of getting a Sneak Attack to stick). You think I’m picky wait till the Critical Role crew shows up and can’t make Vax work the way he does on table top.

Hopefully there will be mods that do all this, but it’s weird how Larian doesn’t understand the mechanics of the game they’re making. It feels like they’ve never played D&D, when we know that they have.

Edit: It doesn’t help that a lot of their fans are the worst. I saw a dude hop into Solasta discussions to basically yell “Solasta is garbage” and then post the patch notes for BG3. Because… BG3 has like 100 times as many people and is backed by WotC it’s totally a fair comparison. Also Solasta’s game is out, goes to level 10 and follows the rules to the letter, but you can’t have sex with a drow so I guess it loses or something.

This type of behavior always strikes me as extremely adolescent. Ignoring the fact that you can like both games, trashing one game while promoting another is the constantly annoying adversarial zero-sum “there must be winners and losers” polarization mentality that has become so trite and totally overdone.

Well, a lot of people online ARE adolescent - and not only in mind :-D

I think I threw up a bit. DOS has to be one of the most dreadfully dull experiences I’ve had in my years of gaming, despite that sort of game being right up my alley and enjoying Pathfinder (with a bunch of asterisks), Wasteland 3, etc.

Hopefully that still isn’t the case by the time it releases, otherwise I’m running for the hills!

Did you play it solo or co-op? Because I’ve tried to play it solo and I agree, but when played co-op it’s actually a blast - @ShivaX and I have played it to the end twice now (DoS2, that is).

That’s actually a concern of mine with BG3 as well - will it be fun in solo/single player? Because I already had more fun playing it co-op in the early access, and a BG3 game that I can’t enjoy on my own is going to be a problem for me. I do want it to also be fun in co-op, don’t get me wrong, but DOS2 was a stumble there, mostly due to the cumbersom UI and item/loot nonesense (which BG3 early access has in spades - cut to me opening every fucking drawer and cabinet in every room and 99.9% of them are empty or have like a rock or some dumb thing in them).

I’m not sure what you mean here - Solasta seems to do a decent enough job implementing 5e on the PC, and I’m sure if they had the resources that BG3 is receiving they could do more. Or maybe you mean it’s hard to implement 5e on top of an existing, very different framework?

Co-op. Which sucks, because co-op isn’t very common in this genre. I’ve tried it four separate times and I just cannot get into it. Dislike pretty much everything about it which drives me nuts because I really want to like the damn thing! :)

I think Soloasta does a great job with implementing 5e combat on PC. I think it does a mediocre job of everything that’s not combat.

This is fair, but like something akin to a Final Fantasy Tactics, that’s really all I want out of a game like this. In fact, I’d love me a FFT style game that uses the 5e rules.

Sure. I’m not saying Solasta is bad or anything. I think the devs succeeded admirably with their goals within the scope of their budget. I enjoyed it.

What I’m looking for from Larian is more emphasis on the out-of-combat stuff that DnD also offers.

Fair enough. However, I feel like the mechanical details of the out-of-combat stuff is less important or at least easier to adapt to a different code base. The Solasta devs didn’t have the time and resources I think to make something on the scale of BG3.

On the other hand, even with limited resources, they adapted the 5e combat pretty well. It leaves me with the impression that Larian didn’t want to start with a clean slate on the combat mechanics side, and chose to switch the combat mechanics over piecemeal.